FFR Ride Quality Improvement Advice:

[DA5ID]

Hey Kids,

So, I recently purchased FFR2842!

I have to say, I am so happy and excited to finally get one and can't wait to get started wrenching on her and making her my own.

I do have some questions for you builders though and at the risk of sounding redundant would love it if you guys could share some experience with me?

She comes from a 94 donor pony car and I noticed that the rack is actually a power steering rack. All I would have to do is run a pump and lines and she'll be good to go there.

Have any of you guys put power steering in your FFR? Do you like it? Any drawbacks or gotcha's to watch out for?

What about IRS? I was thinking maybe IRS would improve ride quality... but I want to hear from someone that has done the conversion before I put in the time and money.

I guess my biggest issue I am looking to improve ride quality. Having a look there are already coil overs on the car, and the springs in the back look pretty standard (maybe 600 lbs?) haven't tested them yet.

Anyway, I am looking to upgrade the suspension and wanted to know (for a street rod) what you guys think are your favorite for these super light cars. I read somewhere that the SPF guys use bmw suspension which is definitely nice, and I saw some JAG kits but I guess I am looking for some real experience before I pull the trigger.

What's your favorite suspension?


Oh yeah... also... As it stands, there are spacers on the back wheels. I just love the way they look when they are not tucked under the wheel-well, but obviously it raises an issue with regards to rear-wheel vertical travel.

If it turns out I need to remove the spacers and tuck the wheels back in, I'm open to it to improve ride quality, but I figured I would try upgraded suspension first because if possible I'd like to keep her looking this way.

I guess that's it for now...

I really appreciate any advice or experience you guys can share.

Thanks!

[Cashburn]

How is the car only 1,600 lbs?

[DA5ID]

Well,

I haven't personally weighed it but the Florida title says it weighs 1670lbs.

Obviously this could be a mistake... what does one of these normally weigh?

-D

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DA5ID

Well,

I haven't personally weighed it but the Florida title says it weighs 1670lbs.

Obviously this could be a mistake... what does one of these normally weigh?

-D

FFR's are generally some of the lighter cars. At our weigh-day a couple of years ago Kirkhams and FFRs led the pack.

[DA5ID]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FFR's are generally some of the lighter cars. At our weigh-day a couple of years ago Kirkhams and FFRs led the pack.

Nice Matrix man... thanks a lot.

So, someone blew it for sure... maybe they weighed it without the engine or whatnot. This car must weigh quite a bit more than it says on the title. (actually makes me feel better)

I can tell you though, this thing is super light and Los Angeles roads are unkind.

-Dayvid

[mrmustang]

Think about a 3 link upgrade along with the new style Koni shocks. If you want to retrofit in an IRS, expect some major fabrication and re-engineering of the rear substructure in order to properly mount it. Not saying it can be done, as it has been in the past, just saying it may not be worth the effort.


Bill S.

[DA5ID]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Think about a 3 link upgrade along with the new style Koni shocks. If you want to retrofit in an IRS, expect some major fabrication and re-engineering of the rear substructure in order to properly mount it. Not saying it can be done, as it has been in the past, just saying it may not be worth the effort.


Bill S.

Exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

Thanks so much!

-Dayvid

[Brian F.]

IRS would improve ride quality from most people's perspective, I have a solid axle w/ 3-link, but have ridden in an IRS FFR before, good ride quality. The 3-link seems to be a better ride quality that the 4-link, which I have also ridden in. If I had to do it again, I would have gone with the Gordon Levy 5-link. This also depends on the horsepower/torque of the engine. Huge HP may require upgrading the components of an IRS suspension system, etc.

As for power steering, I have manual, but it is a flaming river rack and not a de-powered donor rack. If adding power steering, consider incorporating a Heidts valve as many have stated the powered rack is way to sensitive/touchy when stock. This valve reduces the power steering pump pressure.

[franklin]

I had built FFR3409 non donor and it was a solid axle car. I drove it for one year and decided to upgrade it to IRS, definetly the way to go? Handled much better and the ride was also a lot better. Then someone came along and wanted to buy it so I sold it and bought a Kirkham. When my FFR was a solid axle car it weight 2385 with a 351W. My Kirkham with a Iron block 427 side oiler weighs 2145.

[jhv48]

Before I addressed the problem, my FFR could knock your corneas loose if you hit tar strips on the freeway.

Contact Gorden Levy at Levy Racing in AZ. He sells some superb adjustable Koni's that will transform your car.

Before you start replacing whole suspensions, get his Konis. The single adjustable ones with springs will do it.

[Rich A]

DA5ID
If you are looking to improve ride quality...
If you have the older fiberglass seat in you FF upgrading to the newer FF seats will be a big improvement.

[bobcowan]

Ride quality is dependant on a lot of facters: tire size/design/pressure, shock/spring package, and suspension design.

15" tire will be "softer" than 18". Tire pressure for any size should be around 24-26 psi.

You probably have the gold Pro-1 shock. It's an excellent and trouble free part. But it can be a little harsh. Especially if you have 600# springs. Place a cable tie around the shock rod (the shiney part) Go for a normal drive on average roads. Take a look at the tie wrap. It should be at about 1/3 up from the bottom. If it's all the way at the bottom, then your springs are night stiff enough. If it's up near the top where you put it, the springs are too stiff.

Gordon's shocks are the best; Fully adjustable Koni's. They're also the most expensive (you get what you pay for). If you plan on open ttracking or autocross, you should consider these. I'm using the non-adjustable Koni's from FFR, and it did make a big improvement when I switched from the Pro-1's.

IRS is probably the best bang for the buck. The differance in ride quality is like night and day. Solid axle rides like a buckboard compared to the IRS. Give that upgrade some serious consideration.

As for the power steering, that's always a big point of contention. If you're into autocrossing, you'll definatly need that. For anything else, it's just personal preferance. I don't like it because it adds weight and complexity, and another fluid to keep track of. Leaks are common. It also costs about 25hp at the top end.

But, you can get a dramatic improvement by switching to a Flaming River manual rack, instead of the stock de-powered rack.

Like Rich said, comfortabe seats are also important. if you're sitting on a piece of wood (or fiberglass), don't expect a comfy ride. I'm very happy with the optional FFR Street Performer seats.

[DA5ID]

Wow,

You guys are awesome!

I'm impressed at the amount of valuable info I have gotten with this post... thanks a ton.

In the web development community, even intelligent questions are often met with "RTFM" or the standard "It depends on what you're trying to do" response.


So ok... IRS
Seems that IRS is definitely the way to go: Have any of you guys had any luck with these? http://www.cwiinc.com/

That JAG IRS looks pretty tasty, but I always like real testimonials. Anyone have one of these on an FFR?

If not which one do people usually use on these beasts?

Does the standard SVT Cobra IRS fit well on our cars? I'm still a total noob when it comes to which one would be best, and if I do this I *really* don't wan't to do it twice because I didn't do enough research.


Suspension

Levy Racing seems to get a lot of endorsement around here so I'll trust you guys and go that route when looking at new shocks and the seats are also an awesome little suggestion I would not have thought of on my own right away.


Seats
You talking about these ones Rich? FFR Leather Seat

Power Steering
This seems to be something that's going to take a bit more thought.

PatrickT, MrMustang, Rich F, Rich A, Franklin, JHV48 and BobCowan... you guys are awesome... thanks a ton guys, I have a pretty clear idea of at least where I can start with this and I'm excited.

-Da5id

[CHANMADD]

I have Jag series 1 ,front and back, I have used this with Series 11,as well...the same results.
I have a 1990 Ford Tempo Brake master cylinder and Vacuum booster, a 7" diameter booster, I think that the master is only 1" or just over....its been a long time... The master cylinder is a dual master design and I split the brakes front rear, not diagonally.
The proportioning front to back is perfect. I can if I really try lock up the fronts. If I am braking real hard I keep shifting down and let the engine help the rears. I can stop on a dime. ????? I can post pics if you like.
John

[bobcowan]

FFR Used to supply a high back seat called a "Street Performer". I believe it was made by Corbeau; the Clubman model. For some reason, they don't sell them any more. Sometimes you'll find them for sale, from people who have upgraded to a Kirkey or something like that. The Kirkey is nice, but it's a racing seat. http://www.racingseatsonline.com/pro...roducts_id=172

FFR has a bolt in IRS upgrade, using some pretty standard Ford parts. It's not cheap. But it's cheaper than a Jag or somthing similar. It works well, pretty efficient, and bolts in (although welding would be better). It's designed by FFR for FFR; what could be better? https://factoryfiveparts.com/product...cat=255&page=2

YOu can use CObra parts. But it's more exensive and requires some specially fabbed parts. Not really worth it. Run run over 500hp through mine, and it's holding up well despite years of track abuse. I'm using a Detroit TruTrak diff, and heavy duty axle assemblies from DiscBrakeRUs.com

[Three Peaks]

No point in reinventing the wheel, so to speak. FFR already has a fully developed IRS cage with suspension pieces and all that just welds in place and you supply the differential, uprights with hubs, and CV axles. You can pick up a used Tbird Supercoupe (89-93) IRS for around $200-300 and just clean it up and install it per instructions. If I remember right, FFR also supplies the shorter axle shafts for the CV's and the shocks for the IRS set up, but you should check on that.
The CWI really isn't designed with the FFR chassis in mind and would take some serious fabricating skills (read expensive) to be fitted to the FFR.
The newer SVT Cobra IRS can be used, but some of the parts aren't compatible- such as the uprights and the 31 spline CV's in the newer Cobra differentials. Up to 2002 or 2003 (can't remember), the Cobra IRS had 28 spline CV's , same as the earlier Tbird CV's. So, you'd be out the cost of the SVT IRS, the proper uprights, CV's and othe miscellaneous parts.
You could probably get a lot more information on your FFR at the FFR forum ffcobra.com

Bob

[Cougar]

Having both IRS and more recently a 3-link, no question, definitely go IRS. I definitely prefer the ride of my high revving 347 IRS over the buckboard 3-link. The only advantage the 392 3-link has is in manners, with the very mild cam and big low rpm torque, she'll putter happily down the road at as little as 12-1300 rpm. Torque is nice, but in cars this light horsepower is in my humble opinion a better choice. If you like smoke shows go for the torque and solid axle, but if you want a fast sports car go for the IRS and build that motor to rev!
Over the winter, I plan on putting my IRS 347 back together with the following changes;
1) Remove the ps and install an 18:1 Flaming River.
2) Replace the Vic Jr manifold with a Perfomer RPM, the Vic has NO low rpm manners
3) Have the tranny rebuilt by Astro, and lower 5th ratio to .79 (3.27 rear).
4) Definitely sticking with the 15" tires and power brakes.
5) Adding a vacumn guage in the dash.
Just my preferences, but maybe this will help in your thoughts!
Peter