Upcoming FE build: plan coming together

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by lemans24

if you do webers, make sure you use the right cam and install O2 bungs in the exhaust collectors.

That's a smart idea. AKS801 - If you're running Webers then you're likely thinking about revving your engine a little higher than the average FE build. You might want to open the "should I install a solid cam" can o' worms. FWIW, I went with a shorter stroke (4.125) on my build and the bore just .025 over. Along with an aluminum flywheel, the solid flat tappet lets it rev past six grand without blinking an eye. Others will tell you that a solid flat tappet is just a PITA, so you'll have to weed through the BS and decide for yourself.

[aks801]

Ah-yee... so much to consider!

Maybe I should just pick up a used Hyundai Tiburon, slap some nitrous to it, and be happy.

Nah!!!!!!!!!

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by aks801

Maybe I should just pick up a used Hyundai Tiburon, slap some nitrous to it, and be happy.

When I was done with my Mustang (it's at the build-a-kit stage, all parts present and accounted for, some assembly required) I realized I could have walked into a Subaru dealership and driven out in a WRX STi for a little less.

Yeah, riiiiighhht.

[patrickt]

I think a 390 is probably just as good as a 428 in most of our cars. By the time you stroke and bore them, neither one is what it was anyway. Just try and find one of the later 390 blocks that have the extra webbing on the crank saddle -- some have it, some don't. I'm thinking (now don't quote me) that all 390/428 blocks were getting that around 1971 or so (service blocks), ribs on the outside too, at least on the 428s. On the earlier 428 blocks you couldn't always rely on the scratch marks on the back of the block, you actually have to look at the bottom end with your own two eyes.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think a 390 is probably just as good as a 428 in most of our cars.

Barring the resale issue. You could build a fabulous motor around a 390 block, better than most FEs around... but convincing a buyer it's "as good" will be an uphill battle when he's looking at 428 and 427 cars.

Does it make sense? No. Is a 390 in any other way a bad choice? No.

Builder's choice... pays yer money and takes yer chance. You could, of course, lie at resale time... :P

[patrickt]

If memory serves, Sal put a 390 in his beeaauutifully done CSX car, that unfortunately he had to sell just recently.

[rustyBob]

aks801 if you already have a 390 block USE IT put webbers on it and ENJOY IT...
not EVERYBODY cares about resale value on a car thats not an ORIGINAL anyway...
the only way i would spend money for a 427 is on a new block,there to many abused old blocks out there and by time you spend money on them you could have gotten a new one...

[PJ4myboo]

Just some food for thought......We bought a 360 FE out of a '72 truck that was complete from carb to the oil pan for $100. My sons had a load of fun tearing it apart and now the block is at the machine shop waiting for the 390 internals. It should make a nice 428 look alike with more than enough power when we are done.

By the way, I love the weber idea.....love that look!!!

Pete

[Gunner]

If you're choosing not to pay much attention to originality etc., then it doesn't matter at all. Virtually all builders have to face losing 20-25% of the money they put into a completed car, not even counting their own labor. If you want to take the position that it's your damn car and you'll build it any way that suit you... I'll give you a snappy salute and an honest "power to ya!"

But in general, the further you get from original, the lower your resale value is going to go. We've all seen some beautifully, expensively-built cars go for a song because no one else wanted, say, the fluorescent orange car with a carbon-fiber interior, Porsche seats, a show-quality Chevy 327, Foose 22-inchers and NASCAR roll cage of YOUR dreams. A choice for something more original in each of these cases would be a choice for a higher return value... or more, a set of Trigos being cheaper than Chip Foose's latest hot design.

There's something to the argument that there are enough original replicas around already, and some variation has its place. Maybe someday it won't cost so much to go off the straight and narrow ladder frame. But I'd caution anyone against throwing some large multiple of $10k into a project car without thinking through how much they might want to eventually get back out of it. Cobras and their kin might be the one class of hobbyist car that has a potential to return all of a builder's money, with a little luck and foresight.

[patrickt]

... and don't get hung up on the horsepower numbers. If you have over 400 after you hook up the pipes and accessories then you'll have more than you can ever use on the street or mild track days.

[aks801]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... and don't get hung up on the horsepower numbers. If you have over 400 after you hook up the pipes and accessories then you'll have more than you can ever use on the street or mild track days.

Great point, Patrick and one I am certainly keeping in mind. The only real reason I am going this route, as opposed to say a 347 with Mass-Flo EFI, is personal preference. The originals had an FE engine, so I'm with that. Something about that ridiculously big engine in that car is just hilarious and is what I want to see in it. And the Webers give it that touch of exotica that I love.

I won't get too hung up on the 390 v. 428 block question.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by aks801

The only real reason I am going this route, as opposed to say a 347 with Mass-Flo EFI, is personal preference. The originals had an FE engine, so I'm with that. Something about that ridiculously big engine in that car is just hilarious and is what I want to see in it.

Yep, exactly right. Plus one of the added benefits of putting an FE in your car is that you'll be able to put your nose up in the air and rag on all the small block engines (even if they have more power and cost half the price).

[vector1]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yep, exactly right. Plus one of the added benefits of putting an FE in your car is that you'll be able to put your nose up in the air and rag on all the small block engines (even if they have more power and cost half the price).

head up in the air cause he can't see ahead of him that far down the road, and cussing (or ragging as you call it) cause he should have built something else

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by vector1

head up in the air cause he can't see ahead of him that far down the road, and cussing (or ragging as you call it) cause he should have built something else

I have a response, but I'm already skating on thin ice, so I'll just go take the car for a ride and shut up.

[vector1]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I have a response, but I'm already skating on thin ice, so I'll just go take the car for a ride and shut up.

i know what you mean, i'm on double secret probation also

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by aks801

The originals had an FE engine, so I'm with that. Something about that ridiculously big engine in that car is just hilarious and is what I want to see in it.

I won't get too hung up on the 390 v. 428 block question.

aks, if you would allow me to add my $0.02. I know the 390 is an FE block and I know cost is also an issue, but for the sake of resale value, as Gunner expressed earlier, and also for more cubes, I would try to "move up" to the 428 block. Additionally, a 428 was installed in many Cobras and would be higher on the "originality scale." I originally looked at several 428 and 427 blocks, but I got tired fast of looking at blocks that either were rusted, needed sleeves, cracked, etc. While I didn't want to spend big bucks on an aluminum block, I'm now very happy that I did, although now I'm hankering for a SOHC engine. Though I don't really want to carve up my footboxes and make my steering linkage look like a snake.

I'm not saying go buy an aluminum block, but try and imagine yourself in a couple or few years with the car and driving it, and ask yourself the "BACK TO THE FUTURE" question "Am I happy with the 390?"

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

aks, if you would allow me to add my $0.02. I know the 390 is an FE block and I know cost is also an issue, but for the sake of resale value, as Gunner expressed earlier, and also for more cubes, I would try to "move up" to the 428 block. Additionally, a 428 was installed in many Cobras and would be higher on the "originality scale." I originally looked at several 428 and 427 blocks, but I got tired fast of looking at blocks that either were rusted, needed sleeves, cracked, etc. While I didn't want to spend big bucks on an aluminum block, I'm now very happy that I did, although now I'm hankering for a SOHC engine. Though I don't really want to carve up my footboxes and make my steering linkage look like a snake.

I'm not saying go buy an aluminum block, but try and imagine yourself in a couple or few years with the car and driving it, and ask yourself the "BACK TO THE FUTURE" question "Am I happy with the 390?"

Maybe it's just me. I'm an FE guy, I have zero interest in Windsor based engines. As far as FE's go, there is the SOHC, there is a 427 sideoiler, and the rest are all just FE's. A 390, 428, 352, etc. block with a stroker kit in it is all the same. They're FE's. A 428 engine was just a slightly bored and significantly stroked 390. That's it. Externally they're identical, internally they're almost identical. I personally see no value in a 428 block unless you're redoing an original Cobra, Mustang, etc. that originally came with one, a restoration that needs a specific block. For a replica to have any significant additional value with a 428 vs. 390 block - I just don't see it. They're just FE's. Step up to a cross-bolted, sideoiler big bore 427 block, and THAT's a significant difference. 390 vs. 428 block - there really is no difference at all, value wise. As far as power, a 428 block can be made to displace a few more cubic inches than a 390 block, assuming you take both to their max capacity, and therefore on a max effort engine it'll naturally make a few more HP. However, that is the ONLY difference. You can EASILY exceed the 500 HP mark reliably on a 445 cu. in. "Prison Break" stroker kit for a 390 block. No problem with that, and while I don't have the numbers in front of me now, you can get, what, maybe 15 more cubic inches out of a 428 block? That should work out to about 17 extra HP on a HP per Cu. In. basis. Is anyone going to pay a big premium for this? I seriously doubt it. Get the heavy web 390 block, they're all over the place, readily available for about $100. Machine it well, drop in a stroker kit, and you're complete with the short block for less than some numbers correct guru would pay for just a 428 block that'll make no more power and last no longer. That's my $.02, your mileage may vary.

[patrickt]

I agree with everything 767Jockey says. If you happen to stumble across a really nice 428 block, then by all means pick it up. Otherwise, a 390 is just as good in every way. There is one small advantage to using a "vintage" block instead of a new one. In some states, emissions are based on the year of the block. Some engine builders also prefer the older iron blocks as well, but that's another thread....

[rustyBob]

there so many more 390 blocks out there than there are 427/428 blocks that to not use them just because there displacement is just wrong........
i spin my 390 to 6k whenever i feel like it and have been doing this for several years now WITHOUT any problems at all.........

[aks801]

Good stuff, thanks all. Just want to throw in a little more context:

- I will not be looking to "max out" this engine. So, while a modest increase in stroke may be in the works, boring it out for all it's worth will not.

- While I will go for a number of originality/authenticity bits throughout (more for my amusement and getting the right "look" I'm going after), this car won't fool a serious Cobra enthusiast. At this point I'm looking to go with the Factory Five product (hard to argue with the amount of support available), but once the Hurricane car is available again next year I'll be taking a close look there as well (more correct body shape being primary reason). Point being, I'd have no issues with using a 390 block as a starting point.