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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2015, 06:11 AM
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Default Dial Indicators

I am trying to dial in my bellhousing and the dial indicator I have is simply too large to fit inside the bellhousing. You folks have any recommendations on one that works?

Phil
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Old 09-28-2015, 05:28 AM
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Here are some links pertaining to Chevrolets on the subject (I have a Vette)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzc2tmFKUhI[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO9f4FhK13U[/ame]

Several good pictures of dial indicator set ups in this link: Centering Bellhousing Question... - Corvette Forum

It is a puzzle in how to set up the mag mount. Some have resorted to mounting it on the end of the crank flange but most of us don't feel that is a stable enough mount. Installing the flywheel and mounting the base to it is the most stable way. Your right that usually you can't position the dial indicator square in the opening. I usually end up with it just inside and a slight lean on the track pin. That throws a slight amount of error into the actual reading but it's uniform all around the opening so it doesn't really compromise the process.

Good luck.
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Old 09-28-2015, 05:45 AM
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Phil,

There are numerous different styles of dial indicators. The one I prefer for this kind of work is a 1" dial with a back plunger. It is pretty easy to set up for sweeping the bore in the bellhousing. But, as shown in the photos that Dan provided, they can be set up at an angle and work just fine. As Dan said, the error in the reading from the instrument being set at an angle isn't important. You're just adjusting the bell housing so the reading is the same all the way around (or at least within .005"). I've had good luck using a mag base on the flywheel with a good ridged articulating arm. If you're not able to use the dial indicator that you have, it would be nice if you could borrow one because they're not particularly cheap. Also, you only need an indicator with .001" resolution. Don't get or borrow one with .0001" resolution...you'll drive yourself crazy !

Good luck

Ted
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:50 AM
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I agree with Ted, I use the 1" back plunger magnetic base with .001" sense.

You only need +/- .002.

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Old 09-28-2015, 07:18 AM
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I bought an inexpensive setup from Harbor Freight. Look for small parts. It takes a little time to get the setup right, but it can be done.
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:15 PM
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I bought one from Jegs and it lasted 5 minutes. Used another one I had and made them work. Long story short, I am going to remove the existing dowels and put a new bell housing on and center and likely put in new dowels. I am really tired of screwing with this.

Phil
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:49 AM
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Phil,

Is it off that much?

Maybe it is just the dowels...? Did they get wacked or do they look abused?

And then there is the housing - maybe just the bell housing?

My point - may I suggest one thing at a time?

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Last edited by trularin; 09-29-2015 at 07:52 AM..
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Old 09-29-2015, 09:11 AM
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Yes, one thing at a time. One of the dowels looked like it had been moved. I am going to first remove the existing dowels. Last night I took readings in the .046 to .043 range. Not sure I did this right with the dial indicator and will do it again tonight. My plan is to pull the dowels and redo the alignment to see if I can get it closer (within .005) and still have good lateral tolerance with the starter. It's just tight to work on this with the engine in. I will pull the dowels with a dowel puller and hopefully not mess anything up. Then I will take some measurements and see where I am at. Brownell also makes an alignment tool for this task and I have not rulled that out. It is another $150 or so. I am just not so sure I am am getting the right readings on the dial indicator. Either way, dowels are coming out and I will go through a re-alignment.

Phil
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:28 AM
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I have a step by step tutor-torial with pix here. Talk@CobraRegistry.com
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Large Arbor View Post
Last night I took readings in the .046 to .043 range. Not sure I did this right with the dial indicator and will do it again tonight. My plan is to pull the dowels and redo the alignment to see if I can get it closer (within .005) and still have good lateral tolerance with the starter.
Phil
Phil - I may be misunderstanding your figures but if you got 4 readings at 90 degree apart, and all from .043 to .046, that's only .003 variance and you have to divide that by 2 to get actual run out - or .0015. That is already an excellent figure. Not sure if I'm misunderstanding your figures or something?

The Brownell tool has an excellent reputation for accuracy and ease of use but I haven't used it before.
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:16 PM
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This approach works well and is easy to do;

◉ Drill your bellhousing dowel pin holes 1/16" oversize,
◉ Throw away your offset pins,
◉ Install straight steel dowels,
◉ Place the bellhousing over the dowels onto the block,
◉ Snug it down but do not tighten,
◉ Make or get a dial indicator post threaded to fit your F/W bolt hole,
◉ Take out one F/W bolt,
◉ Screw you new indicator post into the bolt hole,.
◉ Use your dial indicator erector set to mount a dial indicator to the post,
◉ Pick 12PM / 3PM / 6PM or 9 PM as your start point,
◉ Preload the dial indicator 0.100",
◉ Spin the crank in 90˚ increments reading the offset at each point,
◉ Write the offset number with a sharpie on the can,
◉ Add opposing points (12 / 6 or 3 / 9)together,
◉ Split the difference,
◉ Use a hammer to tap the bellhousing into position,
◉ Repeat for 12PM / 6PM and/or 3PM / 9PM positions,
◉ Snug the bellhousing down tight and check centering one last time,
◉ Drill and precision ream two heavy washers to fit over the dowel pins,
◉ Push them over the dowel pins,
◉ Tack or weld (either works) them to your can,
◉ You are done!

The process is quick and easy and most importantly, from then on, the bellhousing will always go on the block exactly correct.


Ed
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Last edited by eschaider; 09-29-2015 at 12:22 PM.. Reason: Spelling & Grammar
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:19 PM
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Suggest you look at Jeg's part number 620-15980. This is Lakewood part number 15980. Price is $33.99 plus freight. The advantage with using these is, they are centerless ground, the washers fit really tight. These washers when welded will allow you to remove the bellhousing and not have to center it again. After you weld the first washer, check it again with the dial indicator before you tack the second washer.

Bill K
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Old 09-29-2015, 03:42 PM
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Default Make the job easier

Phil You may need a slide hammer to remove the pins. Once you get the pins out, remove the sparkplugs. This makes it alot easier to rotate the motor and get better numbers on the dial indicator.
With your numbers, they both can't be in the + side. There should be plus and negative number readings. Do like the video and mark down the numbers at 12,3,6,9, and lets see what we get. If the one pin comes out easy, pull it other wise, just leave it until we get good numbers. I know this is a pain in A$$ but you just work through it.
Remember the dial goes in both directions, + and -. This may be where your numbers are confussed. Being .040" off could be correct and you need to slide the bell the other way to drop and raise the numbers and it will even out. You are doing fine.
Get the wife or a kid to rotate the motor slowly while you record the numbers. I think you will see the dial go from plus to minus and back. Rick
Grab a cold one and look at the 2 videos on doing this. You are doing the same thing.
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Old 09-29-2015, 04:46 PM
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Ok, so I set the dial indicator to "0" at 12 o'clock. Turned the crank and at 9 o'clock I read -45 (I say negative as the indicator moved counterclockwise) and -39 at 6 'o'clock and 0 at 3 o'clock. I would take this to mean that if I was not using the current dowls I would need to move at least 21 thousands in the 9 o'clock direction and 21 thousandss in the 6 o'clock position. Is this right?

Phil
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Old 09-29-2015, 05:25 PM
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Thanks again for all the support. I set the dial indicator uo and came up with -45 at 9 o'clock, -39 at 6 o'clock and zero at 9 o'clock. This is with the old dowels in. Based on this, I am going to remove the dowels and start fresh with a new bellhousing.

Phil
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Large Arbor View Post
Ok, so I set the dial indicator to "0" at 12 o'clock. Turned the crank and at 9 o'clock I read -45 (I say negative as the indicator moved counterclockwise) and -39 at 6 'o'clock and 0 at 3 o'clock. I would take this to mean that if I was not using the current dowls I would need to move at least 21 thousands in the 9 o'clock direction and 21 thousandss in the 6 o'clock position. Is this right?

Phil
Those 4 readings are another story - your .02 inch out vertically (toward 6 o'clock) and .025 inches out horizontally (towards 9 o'clock) which is a lot. if it was dialed in by a previous owner he must have been Stevie Wonder.

Remember that you need to move the bellhousing "half" of the difference in measurement of 3 and 9 o'clock and "half of the difference in measurements of the 12 and 6 o'clock - in order to center the bellhousing.
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Last edited by DanEC; 09-30-2015 at 05:05 AM..
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:59 AM
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I pulled the old dowels out last night and have a new bellhousing, dowels, and starter bolts in transit. Hope to put it all back together then. The old dowels came out easily with a dowel puller. I am hoping the new bell housing will be a little better. I hace 3 different sizes of dowels coming. .007, .014, and .021. I expect it will take a few on and offs to dial it in. Hpefully, it will align better with the starter once dialed in.

Phil
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:06 AM
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Yeah, I think my last post was in error in saying it was out towards the 9 o'clock - since that was a negative figure I think your old bellhousing was to far right towards the 3 o'clock position. So if I remember correctly your starter bolts to the bellhousing and centering it should move the starter position to the left (driver side) which will increase tooth engagement.

Good luck.
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:44 AM
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Ok, I got a new QT bellhousing and .021 dowels. After working all morning, I am at 3 thousands at 9 o'clock, 8 thousands at 6 o'clock, 6 thousands at 3 o'clock. If I halve take the differences and halve them, I think this is about as good as I can get. Does this look acceptable?

Phil
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:15 AM
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Phil - I assume you zero'd it out at 12 o'clock. There isn't any need to zero it out but it works either way. I assume these readings are all on the same side of zero - if so then the results depend on if these readings are all less than 0 or greater than 0.

If I assume all the other readings were on the same side of zero in positive territory, then horizontally you are only out .0015 to the right (pass side). If the readings were less than zero, then it's very slightly out to the left side.

Up and down is .004 out which is not great but generally regarded as OK.

A hint if you want to play around with it some more - loosen the bolts to just lightly snug and whack the bellhousing with a rubber mallet in the direction you want it to move and you might pickup a thousand or half a thousand from that - depending on how snug the bolt holes and dowel holes are. But Quicktime Bellhousing are usually of pretty high quality and align well.
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