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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2021, 12:00 PM
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Got some time to work some on this...it may be the distributor. Can anyone help? I have the msd distributor and box...not sure of model...but both advance springs are broken. Anyone know what to order and what type of springs to get? Also not sure if this will help my top end....but they are broken...and I need to fix...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2021, 12:03 PM
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Here is what im looking at
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2021, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundkillr View Post
Can anyone help? I have the msd distributor and box...not sure of model...but both advance springs are broken. Anyone know what to order and what type of springs to get?
Buy the MSD-8464 Bushing and Spring Kit. Here's a pic. Start with one light silver and one blue spring and see if you like that combo.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2021, 12:20 PM
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The light silver and blue combo is what a lot of us use, including me. Here's a pic of mine after I cleaned off an excessive amount of corrosion that prompted this thread: MSD Distributors - Here's Another Thing I Don't Like


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Old 09-24-2021, 12:29 PM
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Guys thank you! I dont suppose this would contribute to my 4800 rpm break up would it? IF someone set the timing with these broken.....what should my timing be ar idle and what should it be at 5000?
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:37 PM
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You will get different answers on your timing questions. What works for me is 35 degrees total, with 10 initial, and it comes in like this:


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Old 09-24-2021, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundkillr View Post
Guys thank you! I dont suppose this would contribute to my 4800 rpm break up would it? IF someone set the timing with these broken.....what should my timing be ar idle and what should it be at 5000?
Surprised the engine would rev up at all.

It would have no advance curve with 2 broken springs. Whatever timing the engine has at idle, it would have a 4000, 5000 etc.

Clean and lubricate the advance weight pins etc, and replace your springs. I like a blue and silver, and a black bush. All engines are different.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2021, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz64 View Post
Surprised the engine would rev up at all.

It would have no advance curve with 2 broken springs. Whatever timing the engine has at idle, it would have a 4000, 5000 etc.

Clean and lubricate the advance weight pins etc, and replace your springs. I like a blue and silver, and a black bush. All engines are different.
Thanks man! Reading up on the bushings now....dumb question...where do the bushings go? Are they on the ends of the weight arms near the spring attachments?
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:32 PM
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There's a little nut, under the weight arms, that holds the single bushing in. The initial timing figure, plus the bushing value, limits your total timing.
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundkillr View Post
Here is what im looking at
Wow, never seen rusted out advance springs before. That should run funky in some crazy way. What is it with MSD and rust?
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:58 AM
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Wow, never seen rusted out advance springs before. That should run funky in some crazy way. What is it with MSD and rust?
Supposedly it's the "massive amount of electrical activity" under the cap, along with ozone creation and the family of fairies that live there. I will say that after I started drilling 1/4" holes around the sides of the cap, as per the MSD tech guy's instructions, and wiping the weights down with a very light film of very light oil, that the corrosion dropped down significantly.
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:05 AM
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I always us a small amount of CLP Break Free for situations like this. Intended for firearms, but clings to the metal, outstanding lubrication, and prevents rust.
https://www.amazon.com/Break-Free-Cl.../dp/B0050GW7KU
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2021, 09:09 AM
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Wow, never seen rusted out advance springs before. That should run funky in some crazy way. What is it with MSD and rust?
I totally agree. And yes both springs are rusted and broken. Now here is the REALLY wierd part.....car runs fantastic until 4800 rpm where it breaks up and falls on its face.
Apparently it's done this since I bought it....indicating to me it's always been broken.
My biggest concern is someone readjusted the timing so it would run fine with broken springs...but fall apart on the top end. But what do I know. I find the entire thing very interesting and cant wait to see if this fixes my issue.
Ever since I bought the car it would never get to 5k rpm. Which I thought was odd considering it has the performer intake and heads...leading me to believe it was built to breath to ar least 6k rpm.....
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundkillr View Post
I totally agree. And yes both springs are rusted and broken. Now here is the REALLY wierd part.....car runs fantastic until 4800 rpm where it breaks up and falls on its face.
Apparently it's done this since I bought it....indicating to me it's always been broken.
My biggest concern is someone readjusted the timing so it would run fine with broken springs...but fall apart on the top end. But what do I know. I find the entire thing very interesting and cant wait to see if this fixes my issue.
Ever since I bought the car it would never get to 5k rpm. Which I thought was odd considering it has the performer intake and heads...leading me to believe it was built to breath to ar least 6k rpm.....
Once you install the springs and time it, if you still have "Breaking up at 4800" visualy check your MSD box to see if you have a white chip (6AL) or an RPM setting dialed in
(Digital 6AL). The RPM limiter is probably not your issue but good to eliminate just the same.

Last edited by NROTOXIN; 09-25-2021 at 09:49 AM..
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2021, 12:31 PM
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As far as the bushing goes...I took my camera and this is about the best pic I could get. Is this a silver bushing? Or is that the wrong area.....
Again...bushings and springs are on way...but this is very foreign to me. I appreciate the help
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Old 09-25-2021, 01:24 PM
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Download the "Tech Notes" PDF and you'll find your answers on page 15.

Ignition Technical Support - Holley
https://www.holley.com/support/ignition/
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Old 09-25-2021, 02:10 PM
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There are several videos on YouTube that show you how to pop out the bushing. It's not as easy as people say it is. For now, put that down as last on the list and just start with putting on two springs, check your initial timing at idle with a gun, and also read what your total timing at 3500RPM is (just rev it to 3500RPM there in the driveway and see what your timing is using the gun). Remember, somebody set that distributor up at some time in the past and they didn't set it up with broken/missing springs. So the chances are reasonable that the bushing is probably OK, maybe it can be improved, but that can wait. If the initial timing is OK, and the bushing is OK, then the total timing is likely to be OK. OTOH, if a shade tree mechanic tried to improve the performance of the engine and never noticed that the distributor springs and weights were big time broken and out of whack, then your initial timing could be anything. You won't know until you check. So first just figure out what everything is set at when you have springs installed and then we'll give you some ball park suggestions as to what to set it all at -- it's not rocket science.
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Old 09-25-2021, 02:21 PM
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Kind of like running a locked down distributor - except it wasnít actually locked down. But as soon as the starter bumped the motor those weights should have swung out fully (unless rusted in place) meaning you would probably be starting with 30 plus degrees timing which would kill most starters. I bet someone retarded your timing until the starter would turn it over OK which means at upper rpm your timing is pretty retarded which would kill your higher rpm power and ability to rev. Slightly retarding timing can help power at upper end but a total of 20 degrees or so would kill power I would think. But until you put a timing light on it thatís just conjecture.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2021, 11:40 AM
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Well got the car retimed after springs. Im at 12 deg idle and total of 32-33 past 2200. Car starts way easier, but unfortunately this didnt fix my issue. I did however get to really observe its behavior. From 1000-4500 it's a monster....but for whatever reason it just wont make power past 4500. It just stops pulling. It is not the rev limiter. At this point my next step will be to make a pull without the breather assembly and see if that makes a difference. Any other ideas what to check? Fuel pressure is set to 7psi now...but that didnt make a difference.
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:44 PM
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Let's try this. Here is a youtube link to show whats going on. The jetting is off or the carburetor is screwy or ignition. I have no clue. Can the fe experts watch and advise? Car seems weak on the top end....

https://youtu.be/UM4mDGSjqBM

I can post a longer video tomorrow...but this thing is supposed to be 550hp and doesnt look like it...lol
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