Keith Craft Challenge IS ON!

[wilf leek]

Cranky - good point, and to reassure you, I have no intention of pulling out the moder that is already in the current car. 'less I break it of course.

But one day, I will take a further step towards originality. Ally car, FE engine. Not any time soon, smallish lottery win required first. And I might just keep the small block car to remind me of life without understeer.

[Cracker]

Tom K. - You basically described my engine.

If someone pays the shipping I'll lend my side-oiler to Keith to perform his changes. The problem with this is I think most people want to see his changes on another dyno - just like I have proposed. The results would be relative since my motor is Standard stoke but increases are easily translated to bigger builds in terms of gains. Let me know and I'll ship the heads or engine. Keith, I left you my phone number earlier prior to this thread starting to propose just this idea. Give me a call if interested in working something out to demonstrate the benefits. Thanks!

[Dan Semko]

Good points Brent and Jamo.
A third party in a totally different locale would lend credibility to the numbers. Are you requesting engine dyno, chassis dyno or both? Eric Hinderberger at Performance Engineering has the background, experience as a racer/ engine builder, and facility to provide the dyno pulls with impartiality.
I don't think Drew or Keith will step up to the challenge much less Richard Hudgens and others.

[Hotfingrs]

First of all...who really cares how much horse and torque you have?? or what engine you're running. If you can't put the power to the ground, what good is it. So you have 700, 800, 900 horse, if someone with 400 horse can hook up and run away from you...what good is it? All that horse is good for braggin rights only....forget the dyno and take it to where it really counts...the track

[decooney]

What is the purpose of this, what will it prove, and to whom it may concern?

... not complaining, but just curious about why a challenges is warranted. It would be cool if someone could video tape the dyno pulls.

IMHO: what would be even more interesting is to have absolute identical parts and components between ALL motors tested, and then see who makes the most torque and horsepower. i.e. A pure motor and blueprinting challenge

[Jamo]

Hotfingrs

YOU are talking about getting it down to the ground? Could've sworn I saw your Cobra take off from an airport runway several months ago.

How ya doing, buddy...where've you been?

[Dan Semko]

Jack,
I don't think the challenge is really about normal, daily functionality but rather who has the best talents to produce the maximum out of similar engine components, under a controlled build.

[ToyCollector]

Originally posted by JBAIRD


Keith Has just purchased the latest Dynomometer out and will be taking the place of the old one in a couple of weeks. All dyno pulls will be done on this new machine at Keiths Shop in Arkansas.

OK, at the risk of asking a question and I am sure getting assailed for "stirring up trouble" by simply asking this question due to my own consumer interest in this topic. Why the recent change in dynos?

Please note I have in the past only asked questions for Keith and expressed some opinion on one person comparing a set of dyno #s from one dyno, to those from another. I have also expressed this point of view in threads before any of these recent debates. Anyway, I am sure there is a whole contingent who now think this simple question is irrelevant and that I ask it to stir up trouble--I am simply curious. And at the end of the day, BTW, Keith may very well get more out of a cylinder head than anyone else. I am looking forward to Cracker's induction change on his FE.

[Dave Rodak]

Originally posted by Jamo



Dave, I agree there may be differences in dynos, temps, etc. That's why I suggested a reasonable margin of error. I sure hope various calibrated dynos are not that far off from each other.

A 10-20 horsepower or foot pounds difference is certainly understandable.

Maybe a shootout in the future would be a good thing, but I surely would think a fairly quick run of the same motor on two different calibrated dynos would resolve any doubts in the near term.

I'll certainly agree that the differences should be minimal and calibrated dynos should provide like results. However, there are lots of different dynos and different ways to do a dyno pull. A set of restrictive headers on a dyno can make a 40+ hp/tq difference. If everyone is not 100% certain of the legitimacy of the environment, the outcome will be meaningless.

Kudos to Brent who I think put the whole sorry subject in perspective.

[427Aggie]

Why has Brents post disappeared.

Also Dan I just spoke with Drew...he will be happy to put a motor on anyone's dyno and sit there and watch it do what it does best...make power.

Matt

[Gary Morris]

I think and I might be wrong but I think where the "rub" is comming from is that Keith Craft is building big horsepower and torque motors for a lot less "dollars" than some of the other builders on this forum and these people are complaining about how can Keith do it for so much less. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think one of Keith's motors are in the 16K to 17K range while others are more in the 20K plus range.......or at least that's what I'm reading into the posts the Turk has started in the lounge area about people being loyal to other engine builders and they are wanting to know how Keith can build x amount of horsepower and torque for that amount of money when we paid much more and didn't get anywhere the numbers Keith is publishing. I could be wrong but I think that's what the issue is.

[Brent Mills]

I closed this thread until I think through how to deal with it.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but I respect all parties involved here and I want to keep the general membership population in mind as we move forward in thinking about the hostility that has risen here regarding dyno numbers, advertising practices on the site, etc.

Bear with me.

[ToyCollector]

Gary, speaking for myself and myself only, price wise I have much less than $20K in my motor and have no rub with that at all. My engine builder would compete very favorably on price. Personally, I want to understand if Keith porting of the heads makes that much difference, or if different dynos do. That's my rub. As it is, I personally run high-riser heads for the nostalgia of it all, and who knows, they probably could match a good set of new fangled Edelbrocks or whatever. Personally, I picked mine for nostalgia as I don't even give a hooey about HP unless it is for a race vehicle.