ignition grief

[Scufty]

Well picked up a new mag pickup today ..let ya know in a few if that was the deal or not ...either way 20 bucks well spent I figure

[Cobrabill]

Points are antiquated pieces of junk and have no business being in a modern car or a car someone is trying to get the most out of.
I don't like wasting my time tuning the car only to have the tune go out the window because the dwell is like a yo-yo because of point bounce.

And no where did i say the billet distributor is the "be all & end all".Case in point:

www.davessmallbodyheis.com

[rokndad]

I think some of the bad rap MSD has been getting is from frustrated old schoolers, like me, getting reacquainted with the shady tree mechanics we were used to from the 60's not having really wrenched on anything much since then. Let alone a high performance engine which has double the HP of anything we ever worked on before. I have to admit, I was used to points, rub block grease, internal condensors and the like. The electronics are a whole new ball game. And now that I've figured most of it out, it seems a little simpler and less complex than the old school stuff ( I have no clue what goes on in the 6AL box and don't want to know).

I kept the MSD because it's what was on the engine when I bought it, and I had heard a lot of good things about it as well as the poorer remarks. After having replaced the major components, most of which more than likely didn't need replacement due to my learning curve, I've finally got 98% of it figured out, and the car starts great every time. I think I'll keep the system for now.

[Scufty]

well...I wished I would have checked here a week ago...sure enough ..Mag pickup! thanks for all the input guys. Now if I could just figure out how tires become unbalanced sitting in my garage all winter? ( not on car )

[TButtrick]

You can read about my MSD failure here

[Cobrabill]

Here's my MSD failures over the past 12 years:

Pick-up module.A piece of crap got underneath and when the screws were tightened,it acted as a fulcrum and cracked the magnet.It eventually failed.(that's story all by itself)Replaced and no more issues.

That's all folks!!

[ERA649]

I bought my third MSD magnetic pick up - first one lasted 4500 miles, second one 1000 miles, third one ?? . I never saw gapping instructions with the installation material. What is the the recommended gap?

[undy]

http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15

[Rick Parker]

lovehamer:

The rubbing block still wears and alters the time it opens the points and thus the firing of the box. That's one of the big issues with points, not just the contact wear.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Points are antiquated pieces of junk and have no business being in a modern car or a car someone is trying to get the most out of.
I don't like wasting my time tuning the car only to have the tune go out the window because the dwell is like a yo-yo because of point bounce.

Let’s see, where to start with this; #1 most of us aren’t tuning on the razor’s edge so the most out of it thing is just silly for most of us. #2 Last I looked your car has an FE; what are you spinning that puppy too in order to get point bounce? I’m quite sure that I’ve had my Boss302 wound tighter that that 427 will ever wind and I’ve done it with points and no problems. #3 When using the MSD box the points only act as a trigger so dwell is not a factor.

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Here's my MSD failures over the past 12 years:
Pick-up module.A piece of crap got underneath and when the screws were tightened,it acted as a fulcrum and cracked the magnet.It eventually failed.(that's story all by itself)Replaced and no more issues.

And it still wouldn’t have happened if it had had a good set of points.

Originally Posted by ERA649

I bought my third MSD magnetic pick up - first one lasted 4500 miles, second one 1000 miles, third one ?? . I never saw gapping instructions with the installation material. What is the the recommended gap?

And a set of points in place of the magnetic pick up would render that moot.

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

lovehamer:
The rubbing block still wears and alters the time it opens the points and thus the firing of the box. That's one of the big issues with points, not just the contact wear.

Come on man, a BIG point? How long does it take for a rubbing block to wear to the point where it makes an appreciable difference in timing? ERA649 has gone through 3 pick ups in 5500 miles, one set of points triggering an MSD wouldn’t have to be adjusted for another 10 miles and then they wouldn’t need to be replaced. While I consider Bill’s “Points are antiquated pieces of junk and have no business being in a modern car or a car someone is trying to get the most out of.” rant to be just that, a rant with no basis in reality. If one is turning 8k RPM regularly, or they are actually in money type competition, then I understand wanting something more precise than points. However, I consider this whole thread to be an indictment of the “ooh, ooh, I want something new and shiny regardless of how good it works” mentality.

Steve

[Cobrabill]

1)

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Let’s see, where to start with this; #1 most of us aren’t tuning on the razor’s edge so the most out of it thing is just silly for most of us. #2 Last I looked your car has an FE; what are you spinning that puppy too in order to get point bounce? I’m quite sure that I’ve had my Boss302 wound tighter that that 427 will ever wind and I’ve done it with points and no problems. #3 When using the MSD box the points only act as a trigger so dwell is not a factor.


2)And it still wouldn’t have happened if it had had a good set of points.



3)And a set of points in place of the magnetic pick up would render that moot.



4)Come on man, a BIG point? How long does it take for a rubbing block to wear to the point where it makes an appreciable difference in timing? ERA649 has gone through 3 pick ups in 5500 miles, one set of points triggering an MSD wouldn’t have to be adjusted for another 10 miles and then they wouldn’t need to be replaced. While I consider Bill’s “Points are antiquated pieces of junk and have no business being in a modern car or a car someone is trying to get the most out of.” rant to be just that, a rant with no basis in reality. If one is turning 8k RPM regularly, or they are actually in money type competition, then I understand wanting something more precise than points. However, I consider this whole thread to be an indictment of the “ooh, ooh, I want something new and shiny regardless of how good it works” mentality.

Steve

First off,Steve,thanks for providing me such a target rich enviroment.

1)Your car had point bounce-You were loosing HP/torque & milage-despite what you "felt".Your timing was fluctuating and your engine was not performing optimally.


Your comment about triggering the MSD with points not effecting timing is,100%, catagorically FALSE.

2)So?I would have lost HP,mileage & driveability along the way.No thanks.

3)See above response

4)If your car has gone thru 3 pick-ups something else is OBVIOUSLY wrong.Loose connection betweeen the wrench & the ground-maybe?

If my rant wasn't based in reality then every car made today would still be running points-they're NOT.

If you think that points don't float untill 8,000rpm,you really need to go back to school.

Electronic ignition isn't new & shiny,it first appeared in the mid-60s.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Your comment about using the MSD box with points doesn't effect timing is,100% catagorically FALSE.

Um, when did I say that? I said that "dwell" wasn't affected. You do know that there is a difference, right? Does that make the above statement 100% catagorically goofy? Or were you referring to my saying that it would take a long time for rubbing block wear to make an appreciable difference in timing? In which case the above statement would merely be lacking in accuracy and understanding. Man, this is like watching a liberal foist words into other people's mouths. I didn't say that I didn't have any point bounce, what I said was that I had no problems. And I believe that this may illustrate what everyone’s problem seems to be with this line of thought; you see, my point is NOT that points are a more precise or better way to trigger the MSD box. My point is that points are a reliable and still viable way in which to do this because most of us would never feel the difference anyway. Of course I know that your sensitive booty would pick up on those points in your distributor right away as you put on that second coat of wax!

By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Um, when did I say that? I said that "dwell" wasn't affected. You do know that there is a difference, right? Does that make the above statement 100% catagorically goofy? Or were you referring to my saying that it would take a long time for rubbing block wear to make an appreciable difference in timing? In which case the above statement would merely be lacking in accuracy and understanding. Man, this is like watching a liberal foist words into other people's mouths. I didn't say that I didn't have any point bounce, what I said was that I had no problems. And I believe that this may illustrate what everyone’s problem seems to be with this line of thought; you see, my point is NOT that points are a more precise or better way to trigger the MSD box. My point is that points are a reliable and still viable way in which to do this because most of us would never feel the difference anyway. Of course I know that your sensitive booty would pick up on those points in your distributor right away as you put on that second coat of wax!

By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

O.K.,Steve-here's ignition 101 for you:

If points bounce/flucuate-dwell changes.

If the "block"postion changes-your dwell changes

If dwell changes-your timing changes

For performance minded people this is not a good thing

This is not a debate-able point-it is proven fact.


If you want the most from your engine,points are not reliable & proven.They are antiquated garbage that belongs in a museum sans 100 point show cars& the like .(Redundant-i know).

Who is this "everyone"?
And please shove your"sensitive booty" comment up your a$$.

[Scufty]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Um, when did I say that? I said that "dwell" wasn't affected. You do know that there is a difference, right? Does that make the above statement 100% catagorically goofy? Or were you referring to my saying that it would take a long time for rubbing block wear to make an appreciable difference in timing? In which case the above statement would merely be lacking in accuracy and understanding. Man, this is like watching a liberal foist words into other people's mouths. I didn't say that I didn't have any point bounce, what I said was that I had no problems. And I believe that this may illustrate what everyone’s problem seems to be with this line of thought; you see, my point is NOT that points are a more precise or better way to trigger the MSD box. My point is that points are a reliable and still viable way in which to do this because most of us would never feel the difference anyway. Of course I know that your sensitive booty would pick up on those points in your distributor right away as you put on that second coat of wax!


First of all Cobrabill this is the post that I was referring to and I dont think thats you correct? so maybe zip it regarding me if you dont mind!
And this was my original post ..if you want to get into a pissing match do it elsewhere please and thanks!


By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

First of all Cobrabill, this is the post that I was referring to and I don't think thats you correct?
This was originally my post regarding my ignition problem and seems to have been hijacked. If you want to get into a pissing match go elsewhere ...I was simply making a joke that 1 guy is telling another to use spell check and in the same sentence spells something wrong!
HAHAHAHAHA
Nough said!

[ERA649]

Cobrabill,
If your car has gone thru 3 pick-ups something else is OBVIOUSLY wrong.Loose connection betweeen the wrench & the ground-maybe?
I know something is wrong but what exactly is it?

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by ERA649

Cobrabill,
If your car has gone thru 3 pick-ups something else is OBVIOUSLY wrong.Loose connection betweeen the wrench & the ground-maybe?
I know something is wrong but what exactly is it?

I'll tell you my story with a few tips.I'd be driving along,(loaded & un-loaded)and the car would shut off just you turned the key off.
But as soon as i hit the key,she would light right back up.This happened about 5 time spread over 2 months or so.Long enough spans prevent any aggressive troubleshooting.
Finally on a my way to a cruise night,it died and took a more than a few cranks to get it going.This happened about 2 blocks from my house.It should have been a hint for me to turn my butt around and head for home.(but,oh,no-not me!!)There's a cruise night happening!!I got it going and off to the show i went.
When it came time to leave,the car wouldn't start.So i flatbeded home.

I have to back up on you here for a second.At the time of this problem,the distributor was 4 years old and had about 4,000 miles on it.

So i employed standard trouble shooting techniques and discovered the lower magnet in the pick-up was cracked.And i also discovered that a little piece of"crap" was under it and acted as a fulcrum breaking the magnet.So the broken magnet operated o.k. for those 4 years but eventually the viberation widened the gap and the magnetic field went away.Hence the ride on the flatbed.

I cleaned everything,lubed everything the way it's supposed to be and replaced the pick-up.
Now here is a disclaimer:I have no recollection of gapping the p/u as others here have stated needs to be done.That doesn't mean i didn't do it.Anyways,it fired on the first crank and has been fine since.


To your problem:This is like a doctor diagnosing your illness over the phone.But here goes:
Verify that it does indeed need to be gapped.
Make sure the interior of the dizzy is sanitary.
Proper lubrication
Make sure there are no cracks/chips(what have you) in the pick-up
What about grounding issues?
And the first thing i would do is call MSD.And if there is a NHRA event near you,go to it and find the MSD trailer.Those guys are the real brains and will be able to answer ANYTHING you ask them.

I hope this helps.

[Scufty]

By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

just had to pick this out seeing as it is MY post that you guys are pissssing at each other about.
I think "showing of" should of read "SHOWING OFF" LOL Now who needs spell check? HAHAHAHAH

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Scufty

By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

just had to pick this out seeing as it is MY post that you guys are pissssing at each other about.
I think "showing of" should of read "SHOWING OFF" LOL Now who needs spell check? HAHAHAHAH

If the best you can do is comment on my fat-finger typing,then indeed you are beaten,as only a loser would attempt such a lame deflection from the topic at hand.

One more thing-i never referred to spell check-genius.My reference to school was suggesting that you go back to school and learn what a steering wheel is used for.

Point*,set,match

Bye-bye Stevie





*Pun not intended

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

If the best you can do is comment on my fat-finger typing,then indeed you are beaten,as only a loser would attempt such a lame deflection from the topic at hand.

One more thing-i never referred to spell check-genius.My reference to school was suggesting that you go back to school and learn what a steering wheel is used for.

Point*,set,match

Bye-bye Stevie





*Pun not intended

It was a pretty good discussion on ignition until the self proclaimed "merchant of (cool?) hostility" got involved and decided to make it a tennis match.

Gee, what a surprise, a real first never seen before.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Scufty

By the by old boy; the next time you feel like showing of that big brain you may want to use spell check.

Steve

just had to pick this out seeing as it is MY post that you guys are pissssing at each other about.
I think "showing of" should of read "SHOWING OFF" LOL Now who needs spell check? HAHAHAHAH

Dhooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya got me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve