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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:38 PM
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Oh the good old days are still here!
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:46 PM
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congratulation for that you finally sell your car

sorry for the low price, the car deserved a much higher price,
but I don't think its about the polish, I think its about the "hybrid"-style.
while monitoring the prices of replicas I think it can be stated that only replicas built to originality without any compromise make good money, all high end replicas with a compromise, e.g. suspension or csx with glass bodys are selling for lower prices
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:52 PM
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I doubt the concept of “originality” even concerns the B-J auction crowd with all the resto-mods selling. Someone paid $350,000 for an Eleanor? This isn’t Monterey. Also, I think it’s hilarious we’re talking about the “originality” of a replica. No amount of “authenticity” makes it one of the 998.

The stock market took a huge dump in December, the economy is showing signs of slowing down and with the “other issues” both here and abroad, very likely now wasn’t the best time to be selling anything.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:11 PM
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Was the $104,500 the hammered price or the final price with buyers fees?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMH View Post
Was the $104,500 the hammered price or the final price with buyers fees?
Larry
TV coverage is hammer price. The docket listing includes the 10% buyers fee. The hammer price was 95000.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 04:16 PM
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I doubt polish/paint had anything to do with it. Just not two people in the room that really wanted the car.

Really nice car, but the 363ci and hybrid chassis are not to my taste. They probably would be perfect for someone else. These cars are such a matter of personal taste, that it is a real crap shoot to sell it “no reserve”.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 04:18 PM
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Definitely “well bought” by someone.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoCreations View Post
I just lost 35k tonight on my 289FIA Kirkham. I’ll never own another.
To all, I would suggest never purchasing a polished finish!!! It’s a nightmare and a rip off. It never looked good and as soon as you touch it there are scratches.
The car is no longer mine so I can now speak the truth. Paint it!
The cars are wonderful works of art, but a polished body or stripes are a nightmare. All the best to the Kirkhams, they are truly artists, but I would never order or pay 16k for a polished finish again!!!
Sorry to hear your car didn't sell for what you wanted. I think all of us have heard stories of cars selling both high and low at auctions. As with most things, it can be a roll of the dice. There is more playing into a sale than most realize and the owner usually has very little influence over any of the variables.

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Originally Posted by 66gtk View Post
That being said, the issues you brought up about the polished maintenance and care needs can be said for a nice, truly SHOW quality solid color (no metallic) paint job, like BLACK.
I agree--though I'd say any color is a never ending battle.

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Originally Posted by Phx Mike View Post
Sorry your car did not command a higher price. As has been said above I am not convinced a general car auction like BJ is the best place to sell a Cobra replica.

I guess I would also add that I must have some special talent because I really have no trouble keeping the polished finish on my car looking pretty good. Certainly not a “nightmare” for me and I drive it all the time.
I very much agree that auctions may not be the best place to sell these. I also agree that polished may not be for everyone. I can say this, however, if your polished car gets a dent, you don't have to repaint the entire car to blend it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpjb View Post
...but I don't think its about the polish, I think its about the "hybrid"-style.
while monitoring the prices of replicas I think it can be stated that only replicas built to originality without any compromise make good money, all high end replicas with a compromise, e.g. suspension or csx with glass bodys are selling for lower prices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Scarboro View Post
I doubt polish/paint had anything to do with it. Just not two people in the room that really wanted the car.

Really nice car, but the 363ci and hybrid chassis are not to my taste. They probably would be perfect for someone else. These cars are such a matter of personal taste, that it is a real crap shoot to sell it “no reserve”.
Thread winners. If a customer wants to build a car and is concerned about resale I ALWAYS tell them that the more original the car is (even though it is a replica), the easier and likely the higher the price they will get for their car. For example, installing the wrong engine in one of our cars DRASTICALLY reduces the value of the car. I have seen our cars (with the wrong engine installed) sell for LESS than the car would have sold for without an engine at all. Correct valve covers, air cleaners, fan belts--are all important for the look of the car and its resale value. It's a tricky, often conflicting, world to navigate; a Tremec transmission is preferred while I've seen a 351 engine or (just as bad) a 428 engine absolutely kill the resale value of our cars.

Our world of replicas has always been a game of originality to a significant degree. Hot Rods are a different ball game all together--no one expects (or wants) their 32 or 33 Ford to be original.

Finally, and I think this is key, we have only made 5 (I think??? I'd have to check) 289 Hybrids out of close to 1,000 cars produced. That's around 1 in 200. Certainly hybrids are absolutely outstanding cars to drive; but, very few people dream about them at night.

Customers want to be taken back into their memories of long ago. Automobile perfectly described it in 2004, "There is nothing nice about a Cobra. It is stripped down to the essentials- a big engine, a small car, and four wide tires to keep the whole business on pavement. Its loud, smells like gasoline, and shakes, shudders, and bucks. It makes your arms tired and your feet hot. You nearly crash about once every 10 minutes. Its so damn wonderful that you cant believe it."

David
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2019, 07:11 PM
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Good to see you back on here David!
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
...Also, I think it’s hilarious we’re talking about the “originality” of a replica....
here is the answer of the eminence of Cobra replicas

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
....
Our world of replicas has always been a game of originality to a significant degree....
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:09 AM
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Really tough to drive on a sunny day. The glare off the hood would make it almost impossible. But, love is in the eye of the beholder.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiChris View Post
But, love is in the eye of the beholder.
that's what makes the world go round small block/big block
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:44 AM
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The hybrid, small block, 5 speed, under car exhaust combo is what I feel held the price down.

People want big block, 4 speed, and side exhaust.

You should of mentioned the first 427 csx3002 was a hybrid 289 front and 427 rear car.

Might of helped
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpjb View Post
here is the answer of the eminence of Cobra replicas
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirkham View Post
For example, installing the wrong engine in one of our cars DRASTICALLY reduces the value of the car. I have seen our cars (with the wrong engine installed) sell for LESS than the car would have sold for without an engine at all. Correct valve covers, air cleaners, fan belts--are all important for the look of the car and its resale value. It's a tricky, often conflicting, world to navigate; a Tremec transmission is preferred while I've seen a 351 engine or (just as bad) a 428 engine absolutely kill the resale value of our cars.
First, David seems to be speaking about the 1,000 replicas he's built. Do you see the words "our cars"?

Second, there are only so many old people left who desire "original" Cobra replicas. Eventually, you have to expand your market to the younger generation, at least that's what I think.

Third, a 428 engine is original, yet it decreases value in a Kirkham. Does it do so in an ERA? Let's ask Patrick. But then a Tremec isn't original, but the lack of it, in a Kirkham, decreases value? Lots of peculiarities and contradictions here.

I'll stick to my original opinion, where the drunks at a B-J auction aren't big into originality. Now, if you're trying to sell a replica at a SAAC convention, then that's a different audience. But, opinions will vary.

Last edited by RodKnock; 01-21-2019 at 11:16 AM..
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Third, a 428 engine is original, yet it decreases value in a Kirkham. Does it do so in an ERA? Let's ask Patrick.
My 428FE is offset by my dual roll bars, so it's ok.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by F355FTS View Post
The hybrid, small block, 5 speed, under car exhaust combo is what I feel held the price down.

People want big block, 4 speed, and side exhaust.
Our customers, by and large, want 427 cars (that's what the numbers bear out). From what we have seen, customers just don't want much deviation from original. The main exception to this rule is the Tremec transmission. It is very rare (even among the die hard, original 289 Street crowd) to install a 4 speed transmission any more. The ONLY guys who install them seem to be guys who are constrained by racing rules. There is, however, some variation to this with our customers from England who, by and large, prefer the Top Loader transmissions. I think a 289 Hybrid is a special case that probably requires a special buyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
First, David seems to be speaking about the 1,000 replicas he's built. Do you see the words "our cars"?
Yes, my comments are directed around our cars. I really don't know too much about other makes cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Second, there are only so many old people left who desire "original" Cobra replicas. Eventually, you have to expand your market to the younger generation, at least that's what I think.
Even our younger customers want the car to look as original as possible--especially under the hood. Interestingly, that really hasn't changed over the years. Every time I think we are going to need to expand our market, I look at our back log and realize younger guys must be buying our cars. Our Coupes are still sold out into 2020 now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Lots of peculiarities and contradictions here.
Now ain't that the truth! It certainly is an interesting market with very interesting customers.

David
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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I can certainly tell you it wasn't about my choice of the Ford Racing 363 that determined the price. That car had non stop attention. I hate to tell y'all, but the cobra market is in a decline.
The other factor was that the polished finished scratched by people barely touching the car or brushing up against it. That is no fault to the Kirkhams, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is not worth it. Plus, the car had swirls and scratches from buffing when it arrived from the Kirkhams. The hood and dash were a mess and I was charged in state local taxes as well to bump it to 16K even though i am in Alabama.
One debacle after the other....options added, options subtracted, no leather dash, random hole in dash, crap ass futura tires instead of quality tires, and always an excuse. That was my experience and it took almost two years to get my car because they love shelby so much and provided cars to them first. My car had numbers of doors and hoods from other cars.

Last edited by RestoCreations; 01-21-2019 at 09:47 PM..
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:17 PM
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One last thing; I forgot that my car was left with so many huge pits in the metal that nobody would touch it. Filed finish was suppose to mean that the owner could sand and polish it himself, but not in my case. I begged local experts to weld it, but they wouldn't touch the car because of the defects, so i had to pay an extra 3K to send it all the way back to Utah from Alabama. Even after I got it back from polishing by the Kirkhams, there were divots in the finish with black polish collected in them. And, they blamed me for the hood that had huge holes around the scoop, which I had nothing to do with. They replaced the hood, but the blame was still attributed to me. It was always as if I owed them something, even when screwed over.
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:40 PM
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And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.
I remember when I asked about the terrible filed finish the response was,” oh, well I thought you were going to paint it”. That was never the case. Some excuse
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Old 01-22-2019, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoCreations View Post
I can certainly tell you it wasn't about my choice of the Ford Racing 363 that determined the price. That car had non stop attention. I hate to tell y'all, but the cobra market is in a decline.
The other factor was that the polished finished scratched by people barely touching the car or brushing up against it. That is no fault to the Kirkhams, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is not worth it. Plus, the car had swirls and scratches from buffing when it arrived from the Kirkhams. The hood and dash were a mess and I was charged in state local taxes as well to bump it to 16K even though i am in Alabama.
One debacle after the other....options added, options subtracted, no leather dash, random hole in dash, crap ass futura tires instead of quality tires, and always an excuse. That was my experience and it took almost two years to get my car because they love shelby so much and provided cars to them first. My car had numbers of doors and hoods from other cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoCreations View Post
One last thing; I forgot that my car was left with so many huge pits in the metal that nobody would touch it. Filed finish was suppose to mean that the owner could sand and polish it himself, but not in my case. I begged local experts to weld it, but they wouldn't touch the car because of the defects, so i had to pay an extra 3K to send it all the way back to Utah from Alabama. Even after I got it back from polishing by the Kirkhams, there were divots in the finish with black polish collected in them. And, they blamed me for the hood that had huge holes around the scoop, which I had nothing to do with. They replaced the hood, but the blame was still attributed to me. It was always as if I owed them something, even when screwed over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoCreations View Post
And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.
I remember when I asked about the terrible filed finish the response was,” oh, well I thought you were going to paint it”. That was never the case. Some excuse


Well, nothing like a little "sour grapes" for breakfast. And I suppose it's just human nature to blame others when you lose money on a deal, but to take full credit for everything when you make it.
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