289FIA Kirkham @ Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale

[RestoCreations]

And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.
I remember when I asked about the terrible filed finish the response was,” oh, well I thought you were going to paint it”. That was never the case. Some excuse

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I can certainly tell you it wasn't about my choice of the Ford Racing 363 that determined the price. That car had non stop attention. I hate to tell y'all, but the cobra market is in a decline.
The other factor was that the polished finished scratched by people barely touching the car or brushing up against it. That is no fault to the Kirkhams, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is not worth it. Plus, the car had swirls and scratches from buffing when it arrived from the Kirkhams. The hood and dash were a mess and I was charged in state local taxes as well to bump it to 16K even though i am in Alabama.
One debacle after the other....options added, options subtracted, no leather dash, random hole in dash, crap ass futura tires instead of quality tires, and always an excuse. That was my experience and it took almost two years to get my car because they love shelby so much and provided cars to them first. My car had numbers of doors and hoods from other cars.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

One last thing; I forgot that my car was left with so many huge pits in the metal that nobody would touch it. Filed finish was suppose to mean that the owner could sand and polish it himself, but not in my case. I begged local experts to weld it, but they wouldn't touch the car because of the defects, so i had to pay an extra 3K to send it all the way back to Utah from Alabama. Even after I got it back from polishing by the Kirkhams, there were divots in the finish with black polish collected in them. And, they blamed me for the hood that had huge holes around the scoop, which I had nothing to do with. They replaced the hood, but the blame was still attributed to me. It was always as if I owed them something, even when screwed over.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.
I remember when I asked about the terrible filed finish the response was,” oh, well I thought you were going to paint it”. That was never the case. Some excuse

Well, nothing like a little "sour grapes" for breakfast. And I suppose it's just human nature to blame others when you lose money on a deal, but to take full credit for everything when you make it.

[peterpjb]

@restocreation

one question occures while reading...

what was your plan in the first place?

building a car for selling it and earning some money
or building it for your own joy?

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

@restocreation

one question occures while reading...

what was your plan in the first place?

building a car for selling it and earning some money
or building it for your own joy?

Excellent question. If he made the car to sell for profit, he made a BAD choice.
If he made it to enjoy, he made a great choice (subjective, really, but we can grant him that one).

The day will come when I sell my hot rod, and I'll take a bath. But I built it for me to enjoy it. Anybody who is looking to get their money back, or make a profit, from a hobby car isn't being realistic. Sure there were times when you could get a roller for $XXX, then the prices would go up and you could sell it for more, but that's NOT a hard and fast rule. If you can't afford to have that "asset" disappear without a trace (or recover a dollar from insurance) and not sweat a dime, then you have no business owning a fun car as absurd as a Cobra.

Now, about that black paint...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rodneym

The day will come when I sell my hot rod, and I'll take a bath...

There's still time to add a second roll bar and paint it beige.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

There's still time to add a second roll bar and paint it beige.

Talk about a value killer. Beige paint, 428 engine and two roll bars. Might as well drive it into the local river and collect the insurance money to be made whole.

After quiickly reviewing Resto's build thread for his Kirkham 289 FIA, I have to say, there seemed to be a lot of "custom" work done to that car. And the Ford Racing 363 with the high port heads wasn't the best choice IMO. But I'm a sample of one.

[Phx Mike]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well, nothing like a little "sour grapes" for breakfast. And I suppose it's just human nature to blame others when you lose money on a deal, but to take full credit for everything when you make it.

Agree - and BTW I have had nothing but great support from David and his guys.

The OP here knew what he was buying going in - yes aluminum is softer than steel and it dents and scratches. You polish it out (not that hard) or you live with the road scars (badge of honor). Take some responsibility here and quit moaning because you didn’t make a profit.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Phx Mike

I have had nothing but great support from David and his guys.

My Kirkham was in the shop last year for maintenance, minor upgrades and new tires. Eleven years after purchase, David replaced a not-so-inexpensive non-Kirkham manufactured part “under warranty.”

Outstanding support over the years.

BTW, does Carlos take vacations to the SF Bay Area?

[cobrakiwi]

Over the past many years I have purchased cars, and many parts from David
(Kirkham Motorsports), never a problem.
If something was not right David always went out of is way to correct the issue.

I have been to there workplace a couple of times, I was treated with the utmost respect and very much enjoyed myself.

Other members of his staff went out of there way to talk and give support and answer any questions I had for them.

Unlike other vendors in this car community it has been my experience Kirkham Motorsports is a stand-up company to do business with.

Thank you David

[patrickt]

This sort of thing pops up every view years. But, the truth is, if you've been in the same business for decades, and you have customers lined up waiting for your product, then you're probably not screwing people over even intermittently -- much less on a regular basis. Everybody hates to lose a buck on a deal, but it happens. And nobody hits them out of the park every single day. Just pick up the pieces, and move on....

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I can certainly tell you it wasn't about my choice of the Ford Racing 363 that determined the price.

My disagreement is based on over 25 years in this industry. At least with Kirkhams, non-original motors absolutely kill the resale value of our cars in every instance I have seen. We had three of our 289 Hybrids change hands in the past year or so that I know of. The other two sold for around $85,000. We had at least two (that I can think of off the top of my head) of our 427 cars change hands last year that were very nice--one for $155,000 and one for $165,000 (note, I don't know the actual selling price, I only know what the customers told me). As I mentioned, Kirkham 289 Hybrids are a tiny, niche market with very few customers. There also are many other issues with your car that I can see as making your car potentially challenging to sell.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

That car had non stop attention.

That is certainly my experience when we take our cars out too. I'm happy to hear the BJ crowd felt the same way about the polished aluminum body.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I hate to tell y'all, but the cobra market is in a decline.

I have heard the same thing from many people...for the past 25 years...

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

The other factor was that the polished finished scratched by people barely touching the car or brushing up against it. That is no fault to the Kirkhams, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it is not worth it. Plus, the car had swirls and scratches from buffing when it arrived from the Kirkhams.

If you touch any high quality paint job it will scratch by "barely touching the car." That is why most cars at Concours have "Please Do Not Touch" signs on them. Even the dust under your finger will scratch the paint.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

The hood and dash were a mess...And, they blamed me for the hood that had huge holes around the scoop, which I had nothing to do with. They replaced the hood, but the blame was still attributed to me. It was always as if I owed them something, even when screwed over.

Yes, your hood was a mess when we received your car back (email to you 24 April 2017) "When my guys were working on your first hood, they found a hole in it, right by the scoop. Those things happen. I thought you had sent the hood with some sanding marks in it, but I also knew there were some welding marks in your hood originally. Either way didn't matter to me because you have been a good customer; so, I decided it was easier for us just to fix it. Even we just go through an edge sometimes--it happens...It's really easy to catch an edge, especially with 80 grit--but like I said, no big deal."

On 20 April 2017 you send me this email, "Thanks David! I only sanded on the hood with a DA sander with 80 grit for a few seconds, so I'm not sure how it could have had a hole from what I did. I was terrified to work on the aluminum and that was why I only experimented briefly with sanding with my DA and 80 grit."

It doesn't take long for someone who is inexperienced to ruin aluminum (or paint, or anything if you hit it with the edge of the paper). I understood you really didn't have any way to fix it and were in a bind. So, I stepped up (like I try to do for all my customers) and just gave you a new hood to replace the hood that had been destroyed. I didn't quibble with you--I replaced your hood for free.

On Invoice 7898 I wrote, "DISCOUNT--replace hood, aluminum was filed and sanded too thin, had a hole -$1,995."

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

and I was charged in state local taxes as well to bump it to 16K even though i am in Alabama.

Interestingly, just this morning I was in my office with my accountant and on the phone with my lawyer on this devilishly complex question. (The Supreme Court just threw another major monkey wrench in the works). Regardless, sales tax has to be paid one way or another, even on purchases made out of state.

https://revenue.alabama.gov/sales-use/faq/

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

One debacle after the other....options added, options subtracted, no leather dash, random hole in dash, crap ass futura tires instead of quality tires, and always an excuse.

We always deliver our rollers with "roll around" tires. Assembly by the customer, and especially brushing or polishing, takes a LOT of time. Your car was initially delivered in 2014 and not many people choose to have their expensive tires dry rotting for years while they finish their car. It's the customer's choice what they want to purchase.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

That was my experience and it took almost two years to get my car because they love shelby so much and provided cars to them first.

You ordered a highly specialized, custom car--they take time to make.

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

And every time I called and managed to get someone on the phone, they would be yelling in Spanish to someone in the background. The running joke at the auction is that now David picks up his empolyees at the local Home Depot.

Honestly, did you really mean to write this?

Yes, I speak Spanish (and Polish) quite fluently. I'm proud of the Mexicans, "Polaks," and Americans who make our cars. Make all the jokes you want--my guys are the best in the world and I stand up for them.

Do you have a problem with me hiring Mexicans, including US citizens of Mexican descent? Aristeo is 74 and he is the first one here at work--every day--for the past 15 some years. He has a disabled daughter so he walked across the desert to get a higher paying job--sweeping floors and washing dishes. For untold years he sent money back to Mexico to support his wife and children. He became a US citizen to better his wages and was ultimately able to bring his family up to live with him here in Utah.

I'll end with a picture I took today of another one of our "Mexicans," Carlos. Incidentally, he also comes to work every day, pays his mortgage, and supports his wife and kids. Hell, I even drink Coronas with him occasionally. Carlos was brought to the US when he was 1 month old--he probably didn't have much say in the matter. He struggled through the maze (and horrendous expense) of US Immigration and legally obtained his Residency. Later he married a beautiful girl from the US and now supports his family.

Carlos is an absolute magician with aluminum.

This is a 50th Anniversary Shelby Daytona Coupe that Carlos just finished polishing.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

There also are many other issues with your car that I can see as making your car potentially challenging to sell.

That's what I was saying up-thread, after reviewing Resto's build thread.

I think he deviated or he pegged too far right on the "Cobra Replica Authenticity Meter & Image Test" aka CRAMIT for short.