Kirkham Marketing Experiment - Page 2

brentfenimore · #21 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 01:06 AM

Hello Dave,

Just a few questions concerning the market study you have conducted.

Are you offering the vehicle that has been shown at a price of $39,900 to ther general public or is it just a one time offer?

Does the price include wheels and tires or are they to be chosen and paid for along with the diff, radiator and half shafts?

Is this a one off or do you plan to build additional units in order to offer them in quantity to perform a true market study?

Will the 2004 price increase on the 427 body and frame assembly affect the product in mention?

I have to admit the vehicle is a beauty however I must state that it is not a new concept. Carroll Shelby, Ken Miles and AC built several (26) of the 289 / 427 concepts back in 1964.

I can only wish you the best on the project, Miles always said the 427 chassis and suspension with a small block (351 cu in) would have beat them all hands down (although he did not ever mention that the FIA body style made any differance on the performance).

R Brent Fenimore

Lowell W · #22 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 04:49 AM

David,

Very interesting concept and another beautiful car. I've examined one of your 289 cars but just couldn't get past the leaf spring front suspension on a "modern" car so this seems to me to be the ideal upgrade for the 289 car. This also seems to be the perfect vehicle for a big Windsor motor without (hopefully) offending anybody. Weren't the 427's significantly larger cars than the 289's? My experience with aluminum cars is extremely limited: I've sat in a Shelby 400 and a new AC. However, aside from the cramped (for me) footbox, the 427 felt roomy to me, compared to the 289. How does putting the 289 body on the 427 frame translate to room in the car?

I always enjoy watching what you folks are doing with these cars. It's fun to see how you mix 'n match, fiddle with this, diddle with that, all towards improving my all-time favorite car in the whole world.

Thanks,

Lowell

southernfriedcj · #23 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by brentfenimore

I have to admit the vehicle is a beauty however I must state that it is not a new concept. Carroll Shelby, Ken Miles and AC built several (26) of the 289 / 427 concepts back in 1964.

Mr. Fenimore, DK, or Ron, whats the scoop on these original Hybrids?

Jackal · #24 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 07:19 AM

David,

How about a 427 roller for $39,900?

Ed.

John McMahon · #25 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 07:24 AM

I seds whatsk I seds and I kain't standsk it no mo'.....

I WANTSK A SLABSK SIDESK!!!!!

computerworks · #26 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by southernfriedcj

Mr. Fenimore, DK, or Ron, whats the scoop on these original Hybrids?

Actually, they made two.

The 427 coil-spring protos were (I think) CSX2700 and CSX2701 from AC..later re-numbered to CSX3001 and CSX3002, to fit in with the new model series numbering. Wider frame rails, what became the 427 rear clip, with 289 nose. The 289 nose was widened a few inches at each fender top.

This Kirkham is a bee-oo-tiful rendering of CSX3002.
(David, even the original had front flares that look larger)...

A REAL purist could pick up this car and add the square oil-cooler in front, and the brake-cooling ducts...and have a marvelous 3002-clone...

...just do it with a 289 street dash layout!

Cal Metal · #27 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 08:05 AM

Someone is going to get one heck of a buy at that price. Pretty darn nice. I have to admire the Kirkham's penchant for getting on the Forum and bouncing ideas around, as well as communicating their thoughts to members. Very astute on their part.

JWheaton · #28 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 08:28 AM

David,

I need to ask the question of why a hybrid?

Are there positive economic gains by manufacturing a hybrid over just focusing on the 427 and 289 (street trim?)

I am not always the sharpest tack in the box so I am not understanding where your efforts are intended to lead. Without question it is a great looking car. I, personally would not be interested in hybrid because I want the look of a 427. (and can you imagine how you explain what it is to the people who ask the question "what is it?")

Thanks
Jamie

clayfoushee · #29 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 08:57 AM

David,

I'm very impressed! If I had not recently purchased my completed car, which I'm happy with, a certified check would be winging it's way to Utah via FedEx tomorrow. Still, I'd choose this one at this price.

Now if I can only convince my good friend this afternoon before it's too late, that he really needs this car.

xlr8or · #30 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 09:27 AM

As I wait paitiently plate in hand, for my turn to carve a thick slice from the Prime Rib of replica's......
You guys are killing me here!!!

David another great deal you have offered here. I hope there are still a few rare slices when I am ready to send you a check.

Good luck with the marketing experiments.

Scott

BT SNAKE · #31 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 10:14 AM

David,
You have struck a chord here and it's vibration has
awakened some interest from the competition I'm sure.
I think this offering is a brilliant response to those
who asked questions on your other thread. This offering
can certainly be finished out at an affordable price that puts the
Kirkham in the mix of a healthy competition but with an
alloy body. All I can say is WOW !
Keep up the good work guys.

Hersh

Sizzler · #32 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 11:19 AM

180 pictures, and not ONE of the car straight back, showing a complete, side to side, top to bottom shot, of the full rear with wide wheelbase planted on the wide rear tires!. The whole POINT of the hybrid design is the wider rear!!!

southernfriedcj · #33 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sizzler

The whole POINT of the hybrid design is the wider rear!!!

I thought the whole point of the Hybrid design was to have a coil spring, stronger framed 289 bodied car?

I'd better go back out to the garage and take another look at KMP230!

southernfriedcj · #34 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 01:49 PM

What the heck are you guys waiting for?? Someone buy this car! If David had listed this car as a no reserve car it would go in the high 40k's. Where is TC? He must be out enjoying the 65 degree weather. Or maybe he finally ran out of shop space.

GeorgiaSnake · #35 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sizzler

180 pictures, and not ONE of the car straight back, showing a complete, side to side, top to bottom shot, of the full rear with wide wheelbase planted on the wide rear tires!. The whole POINT of the hybrid design is the wider rear!!!

Some folks are never happy

Randy

brentfenimore · #36 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 02:27 PM

David,

26 AC Cobras under the COB numbering system were built as 427 chassis / suspension with small block drive train and a few body features. I was fortunate to see two of them during my last visit to the UK, one had just returned to Bill Shepards shop after spending the weekend racing and I have to say that it was an awsome vehicle.

I will look through my shots of my trip when I get to the office Monday and try to get a few of them placed on our web site for everyone to take a look at.

I will be meeting with Alan Lubinsky on Monday and will request that he have his guys take a look at the original AC registry to try and nail down some numbers. I was able to review the registry during my last visit as well, quite detailed and what a piece of history.

Good luck in 2004!

R Brent Fenimore

terry lee · #37 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 02:58 PM

TEMPTATION IS REARING IT'S UGLY HEAD ONCE AGAIN.
AND I HAVEN'T EVEN HAD MY SPF FOR A YEAR.

SHOULD I, OR ??????????????????????

TL

Jamo · #38 (**permalink**) 12-29-2003, 12:15 AM

I saw this car! Oh my.

Tom K. showed it to Cheerleader and me following a discussion between David K., Cheerleader and myself about the relative costs of these cars and divorce. Ah...., Cheerleader sorta won that discussion.

If there ever was a perfect version of the Cobra, this might be it.

terry lee · #39 (**permalink**) 12-29-2003, 05:49 AM

Jamo,
I've got a cheerleader too!!!!

Someday, we will have to compare notes. Mine is from our days in H.S.

Now, if I make this move I could REALLY be like you

maybe a little more stealth, but not by much.

It's to early to call David K., but it is on my "To Do" list for today.
This really is MY cheerleader's fault,

as she gave me a copy of "COBRA The Shelby American Original Archives" for X-mas. Now I know what a FIA Cobra is.

I can see it now, she'll want the SPF for herself - oh no - NOW we will be like the Semkos.

Is there no justice? You damn attorneys did it to me again

TL

David Kirkham · #40 (**permalink**) 12-29-2003, 06:28 AM

Brent,

Sorry for the delay in responding...lots of relatives and friends around here lately--and lots of questions on my email.

Brent asked, "Are you offering the vehicle that has been shown at a price of $39,900 to ther {sic} general public or is it just a one time offer?"

Currently, this is a one time offer. We are doing a marketing experiment and listening very carefully to what the responses and comments are on this thread. It is too soon to say how the experiment will turn out.

Brent asked, "Does the price include wheels and tires or are they to be chosen and paid for along with the diff, radiator and half shafts?"

The purchase price of $39,900 includes the wheels and tires which are on the car right now, (the ones which are in the pictures).

Brent asked, "Is this a one off or do you plan to build additional units in order to offer them in quantity to perform a true market study?"

We have sold several cars on ebay. This is part of our ongoing market study we started long ago. If you have watched the auctions, you will have noticed we have mixed up the auctions to see which cars have the most interest. Our market experiment is not limited to cars on ebay, but is based a great deal on the customer comments on this site.

Brent asked, "Will the 2004 price increase on the 427 body and frame assembly affect the product in mention?"

I am not sure you want me to discuss our pricing with Shelby here.

Nevertheless, as everyone knows, when the Euro was introduced it quickly fell to 0.80 Euros/dollar. Now there are about 1.25 dollars/Euro. We have lost about 35% of the value of the dollar against the Euro over the past while. We, of course, have taken this all into account and have shifted a great portion of our production to the United States so as not to be caught in world currency markets. Poland generally only makes the frames and bodies now, (with a few other parts). We have invested heavily in several CNC machines here in Provo and have purhcased some some in Poland. As I am sure you can imagine, if a CNC machine is running 24 hours a day, it doesn't really matter if you are paying US labor rates or Polish labor rates as no one is watching it anyway. So, our costs in Poland have gone up, and our costs here in the US have gone down. We live in a global economy now and so you have to look for ways to gain a competitive edge. Low labor rates are not always the answer.

Brent said, "I have to admit the vehicle is a beauty however I must state that it is not a new concept. Carroll Shelby, Ken Miles and AC built several (26) of the 289 / 427 concepts back in 1964."

Thank you very much for your kind words. Carroll and Ken certainly did have some wonderful ideas.

Brent said, "I can only wish you the best on the project, Miles always said the 427 chassis and suspension with a small block (351 cu in) would have beat them all hands down (although he did not ever mention that the FIA body style made any differance on the performance)."

I too think a small block on a 427 chassis is a great combination. However, I think Ken was actually referring to the 289 engine and not the 351 as the 351, according to my understanding, did not come out until 1969--long after his untimely death.

David