Raw welded flunked...how about interior panel mounting delete?

[David Kirkham]

Since my thread on raw welded bodies went over like a Jane Fonda speech at the NRA national convention...

Still looking for ways to help people get into these cars more cost effectively. Still working on that budget friendly car.

What do you guys think about offering the cars with the interior panels not trimmed and fitted to the car.

It will take the average guy, (just guessing here), about 100 hours to fit, trim, glue weather stripping, drill, and mount the interior panels into the car. That is a long way towards me making another car if I don't have to do it--ie, less expensive car to the customer if they want to do the work themselves.

What do you think?

Any other suggestions for lessening the cost of the car?

David

ps. no tee shirts this time! I'd run out.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

David,
There are couple things that are high dollar items that are not really used for their intented use anymore,even though they are correct.
1- The knock off wheels and hubs are for quick tire changes at the race track, virtually nobody needs them anymore for the street. Maybe save $3,000 over a replica bolt on set of wheels?
2- A Ford 8.8 or 9" axle would be another cost effective option for most people as they would never drive the cars hard enough to get a benefit out of IRS rear suspension on a road course and a solid rear is actually better for high HP street cars.
3- The leather seats could be replaced with the new generation of man made leather,my couch is very comfortable and easy to clean.

I hope you aren't offended by these cost cutting idea's, most people are blinded by your stunning aluminum body to see the other mechanical details.

Regards,
Perry.

[jpfletch1]

Perry pretty well covered most of the variables. I do think most guys could cut and assemble the panels with some good directions.

[xlr8or]

David,
Doing mass quantities of riveting sucks. Ask the FFR customers how much they enjoyed popping 1200 rivets.
My suggestion would be to pack it up like my car was. Eliminate as much of the expensive US labor as you can and leave that to the customer. My car had the body mounted, footboxes and interior panels installed, Trunk panels installed and wiring harness hanging in car.
Leave all the details in boxes. Let the customer install interior, dash, plumbing, pedal box, brakes, suspension, steering column and rack, windshield, radiator, fan, lighting, E-brake, gas filler, rollbar, hood and truck latches etc. etc.
Ship the car with a file finish. This way if the customer wants BNL, full polish or painted car it is ready to do the body prep when it goes out your door. Once the body work is done they can start the assembly. Leave the tires and wheels out since they are available direct from Trigo or Vintage and they can pick the tires they want as well.

This way you can recieve it from Poland, load it up with boxes of stuff and toss it on the truck. Your option list can remain the same as it is now and you just put the appropriate stuff in the boxes according to the order sheet. Your US labor is now gone from assembling the car to filling boxes with parts. With some efficient processes in place it shouldn't take but a couple of hours to have a car ready to ship out if you have the parts in stock.

Scott

PS: I wear XXL

[HI Cobra]

David,
For a budget oriented car I think xl8or has come up with an excellent plan
that eliminates a lot of your labor and gives the customer a little wider
range of choices for options. Should make the out the door time much
faster with the different phases boxed seperately. The key here is concise
instructions for the assembly of these sub components so there are no
grey areas. Should also help your cash flow since you won't be providing
everything + fewer ordering headaches.

[John A. Simpson]

My wiring harness is in a box, I'l let you know about that part of Scott's suggestion later. My car has just enough rivets in place to secure the panels, I'll be doing the rest. I have to find my cleko pliers, I have a couple of polish clekos to remove! I pretty much agree with him, he's an assembling maniac. You could probably hire him to assemble your cars and cut your labor costs in half!

[luke-44]

I may partly disagree with xlr8or here - I for one would absolutely be up for saving the $$ by doing my own riveting... (depending on how many $$ savings it is of course - if it is relatively inexpensive polish labor and it is critical to getting the car right, I may recant)...the key I think is not having to do any metal panel cutting - I tend to butcher metal panels...it's been a while but I recall having this discussion at ERA - if I am not mistaken, they fit the panel, stick in 1 or 2 rivets (or those cleco pins) to hold it in place and then you take over - in other words - you can't screw up the fitting, but you still do the grunt work.

As for xlr8or's other comments - I agree.

Didn't the original offering on the $24.9F car have a less expensive rear end - still irs, but Ford or something?

Changing wheels to bolt ons, means changing hubs wouldn't it? I think we spoke about this at your shop....this now gets into a lot bigger engineering changes as I recall. Otherwise, if that wasn't an issue, I would likely go with 5 pins - on the ERA this amounts to abut a $2400 savings, but no change in looks.

Along those lines, are Wilwoods not the top end of braking systems? If a good Ford/GM hub could be used, then maybe their brakes/discs as well. maybe this would help to trim out a few $$.

[Maricopa]

Ask the FFR customers how much they enjoyed popping 1200 rivets.

Harbour Freight Air Riveter, greatest invention known to man. Riveting was actually pretty fun, much more than bodywork that's for sure.

[TampaFla]

I never saw a 289 with Halibrands in the early 60s; that's something that was "added" but not original. American Racing is now making sets of both Torq Thrust Ds and Kidney Bean wheels that fit perfectly and cost less than $1500 vs $5000. All a matter of taste (look better but that's only 1 opinion) and need (can probably change a wheel just as fast since the "extra" money can be used to buy 2nd set of wheels and tire changing equipment.

[Jamo]

David

If I ever see you offer bolt on wheels or the like on a Kirkham, I will personally fly over and kick your ass.

[ENTDOC]

If I start seeing Kirkhams with torque thrusts and Ford 8.8 rears, can we then expect to see 5.0 efi and 4.6 modular setups? When that occurs mine will be for sale.
Again,I suggest leaving the idea of producing a car for every pocketbook to Toyota. Nothing wrong with a little assembly work by the buyer,but do not alter the basic product. chuck

[decooney]

I'd say bail out on the splice and dice discount approach, and just build them in a few different stages and leave it at that. Sure, maybe you will sell fewer cars this way, but more likely over a longer lifecycle of your product. I think if you branch out to offering too many different engine platform options and suspensions, your car will just turn out to be run of the mill and no longer an exclusive offering. I say stick to your original base platform, approach, and design. Sell quality at a reasonable price. It is what it is.

[Thorin]

I hardly ever agree with Jamo, but in this case I will help with his airfare!

I am vacillating between ERA and you re: a 289 FIA. The reason I am considering the two of you is that I WANT quality. The quality of these companies comes at a cost - so be it. Please don't compromise your quality in order to sell a few more kits.

thorin

[David Kirkham]

Before anyone has too much of a heart attack (me included), I have never mentioned bolt-on wheels or lowering the quality. Jamo wouldn't have to come and kill me as I would jump off Squap Peak before I'd do that.

Of course, there could be a very good arguement that not filing the cars is lowering the quality. Installing interior panels is not that tough, but it is time consuming.

I do like the ideas though. I am certainly thinking.

Thank you,

David

[Tongue Pirate]

??? Are you guys trying to boost sales? While I am a distant admirer of your cars mostly due to the fact that they are out of my range they do hold to somewhat of a dream in my head(Maybe some day!!!?). I may be the minority here but I kinda like knowing something is out of my range, it makes it that much more special to me & when & if I do get to attain that un-attainable it makes it that much more pleasurable. Call me crazy but I don't want to own a Corvette, a Porche 911 or anything that you see on the road everyday. I wan't something that is hard to get. I also understand that you have to run a business & a business needs to make money while trying to outdue the competition. just my 2 cents.

[ENTDOC]

I agree with Hyde. chuck

[TampaFla]

First rule of business is to stay in business.

Kirkham should do what it needs to do to sell it's cars and that probably means opening new markets since there just aren't that many here that own more than 1 Kirkham or are offering to buy a second or third one whether you change the design or not.

[ENTDOC]

I am not aware of any problems with the present business model, in fact, I believe they are thriving. chuck

[Ibr8k4vetts]

I agree with luke-44

[Power Surge]

David, I'll repeat what I've said on this topic previously..

Lowering the cost is great, but under no circumstance should customers be given the chance to lower the quality of the car. I don't think it's a good idea for any customer to have to cut, trim, make, modify, etc any part of the car during the build process. Save the costs on labor. Sell the parts and let the customer assemble it. Most people can handle assembly. But not every can cut sheet metal and install it properly. While I'm sure there are plenty people who CAN do it, from a business perspective you need to stick to a set plan of how cars are sold, as opposed to changing orders based on individual customer abilities.

I still think my original idea is your best choice to get lower budget customers into your cars...

Offer the cars in stages. Let a customer buy the frame/body first. Then offer "packages" the customer can buy, to build his car in stages. You can have a suspension/brake package, wiring/lighting package, interior/exterior trim package, and so on. That lets them get INTO the car initially for much less money. They can then buy the different stages of parts as they save up more money and continue the build. The customer doesn't have to dish out 50k or so for a roller, can build the car at his pace.

This is without a doubt the best way to achieve your goal, IMO.