Its over, the Dems win

[Excaliber]

When are you going to wake up and recognize the insurance lobby drives the rules?
It's about time our Government said "ENOUGH" and is looking to fix the problem!

I don't have a problem if their #1 in profits, as long as folks can get access to decent medical care. Currently, to many are excluded under rules lobbied for by the insurance groups.

[Excaliber]

man, how do you come up with this stuff.

Good stuff aint it? It's the sugar coating on my corn spread around the entrance to my abode. Here, have some more (but watch out for the Unicorn, he's got a nasty horn).

Well if the group doesn't like old Robert or the Times I guarantee there are plenty of other polls that will show the same thing. The VAST majority of Americans support some kind of Health Care Reform. Man, can't you see that???

To regulate commerce with foreign nations and among the several states,
and with Indian tribes.

And your point is? Sounds pretty clear to me, "regulate commerce". What?

[Excaliber]

Here's the bottom line about Health Insurance industry profits.

There among the highest in the nation. I'm laughing at you guy's defending the poor Insurance folks just struggling to get by.

...Ernie closes the gate have successfully boon doggled the conservatives into supporting a cause no one even gives a rip about. Those poor helpless starving insurance companies. Now how pathetic an argument is that?

Mount's his trusty steed, Unicorn, and rides off under the rainbow. Merry Christmas to all!

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Here's the bottom line about Health Insurance industry profits.

There among the highest in the nation. I'm laughing at you guy's defending the poor Insurance folks just struggling to get by.

...Ernie closes the gate have successfully boon doggled the conservatives into supporting a cause no one even gives a rip about. Those poor helpless starving insurance companies. Now how pathetic an argument is that?

Mount's his trusty steed, Unicorn, and rides off under the rainbow. Merry Christmas to all!

Once again an opinion where facts are needed.
Google health insurance profits. Every source with a research staff says one things. Blogs with no source but their own opinions says another. ACORN cites 400% profit increases by insurers but cannot cite a single source. They pull the number out of thin air and the kool aids and unicorn riders take it like gospel. Real sources, even ones like ABC, no friend of conservatives, say health insurance profits are not large.

Read some sources with research staffs.



http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091025/D9BI4D6O1.html

SIX PERCENT!

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/healt...ory?id=9036632

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-debate-heats/

http://www.tdn.com/news/opinion/arti...cc4c002e0.html

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/print/52418

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/...nks-86-by.html

[Ralphy]

So if you believe this, do you support an open market for insurance companies to compete across state lines? As the Republicans promote?

[Ralphy]

Ex I found a great site for you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=105x2169192

[Excaliber]

I don't support it all, sure SOUNDS like a good plan, but it does little or nothing to improve the lot of those who can't afford Health Coverage all ready. If company X can offer a policy $5 a month cheaper than company Z it won't matter to the consumer that can't afford a plan anyway! In fact, there is no gaurentee rates would go down, they could go UP!

RISK IS RISK, no matter where you live. The poor, abused, broken down and kicked around insurance companies will still use the same charts, the same risk factors to determine cost/profit ratio's. Got a pre-existing condition? Your still screwed, in or out of state. Can't afford Health Insurance because your barely able to make rent every month? Saving $5 or $10 a month by buying insurance out of state won't make a difference, your still screwed.

I have seen very little the Republicans have offered in the way of real reform. And frankly, it's starting to piss me off. All they have done is whine and cry and try to stop reform at all costs. WHEN Health Care Reform IS passed and it proves out to be a good idea (which it will) Republicans will be remembered for what they did. Drag their feet, block reform, point fingers and call anyone who opposes them "Nazi's". Really, it is pathetic and they WILL be remembered for it.

[Excaliber]

There is ONE way opening up the markets across state lines could work.

Strict Federal oversight, which the Repubs will no doubt want to shoot down. It's what they do, stop, block, vote against, it's all they know HOW to do!

[Ralphy]

Wow Ex, I was responding to your comment about excessive profits. I proposed increased competition. Just can't see how you missed that and went on a regulation tangent.

Nazi's? Isn't that a word the Dems have been throwing out?

[Excaliber]

That's a word to often used by right wingers and tea baggers actually.

Well the proposed competition is a bit of a sore point with me, sorry for the harsh reaction, you found a button.

Opening up the markets was first proposed by the Repubs and is now gaining some support within the Dem camp. But I see major problems with how the idea came about and how it's being handled. As offered by the Repub's it flat out ridiculous, it offers ZERO change in terms of Health Reform and could well lead to increased premiums. Not well thought out to say the least. Now the Dem's recently seem to be embrassing the idea, perhaps a chance to reach across the aisle?

But if the idea is going to work it will need some pretty tight and complicated regulations. Which the Repubs will balk at and the whole issue will dissolve into another brawl and distract from the work at hand, real reform. Competition, even well regulated, offers such small savings (if any) it's just not worth the effort. Perhaps as a "tuning factor" after the motor is built, like adjusting the fuel air for a smoother idle. But if you got the wrong parts in the motor, it won't mean nothing.

Seriously, the Repubs need to get off their butt and help offer some reasonable suggestions to help with real reform. If they don't do that soon... Health Care Reform WILL pass, it will be embraced by the general population. The Repubs are going to be remembered as the bad guys on this issue.

[Ralphy]

You keep trying to sound like your in the middle. But there you go again, Tea Baggers? Thinking you listen to the left so much you do not even know the right name.

[Excaliber]

Where I stand is totally dependant on the issue at hand. I can be right, left or middle.

Based on this typical "Tea Leaves" protest sign, I used the correct terminology. They are a fringe radical hate group, soon to flame out or be absorbed by the GOP. A party built on the principles of hate cannot endure.

[Ralphy]

Now there you go again. "They are a fringe radical hate group, soon to flame out or be absorbed by the GOP. A party built on the principles of hate cannot endure."

You can't stop!

[Ralphy]

Let's see you used the words Nazi's, Tea Baggers, Fringe Radical Hate Groups? Just who are the hatters? Your side has been using these terms for decades against the right.

It's like my mom used to say, when you point how many fingers are pointing at you! These are ordinary people you point out, however the left side politicians use these term loosely. Then you search images of the worst?

Just fricken wow!

[Ralphy]

I heard an estimate 800,000 showed in DC. For every one that showed how many more wished they could have gone. Ten maybe twenty maybe fifty? People are fed up with the tax and spend. Oh, and Obama did stand on this platform.



quoted Dan Bana, a spokesman for the National Parks Service, as saying that the 9/12 protest was "a record ... We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever."
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/...arch-in-dc.php

[Excaliber]

I offer my opinion on this issue as a bi-partisan. I don't believe a group, movement, party, etc. will be able to sustain itself when it's foundation is based on hate. Regardless of it's size. How would you describe the fellow holding up the Obama sign? He doesn't represent the principles I believe this country was founded on. He certainly doesn't speak for the majority of American citizens. He isn't "main stream", his message is one of hate (and Nazi influence), one must conclude: He's a fringe radical hate monger, his message, what ever it is, is immediately lost because of his sign. Tea Leave's would be wise to clean up their act if they have any hope of real change.

I don't have to hate them to have an opinion of them. I don't have to show them respect, and won't, unless they have earned it. I speak of the "group", the "movement", there are always good people and bad within any particular group.

[Ralphy]

Obama ran on hate the rich, hate Bush. I disagree!


Hmmmm......

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...=&aqi=&start=0

[Ralphy]

U. of C. shunning poor patients?

Sen. Barack Obama's wife and three close advisers have been involved with a program at the University of Chicago Medical Center that steers patients who don't have private insurance -- primarily poor, black people -- to other health care facilities.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...hosp23.article

Another old story how the Obamas play

[Excaliber]

Within any group, bad and good people. The over all theme of Obama's campaign was clearly based on a positive foundation, one "hope and change". That "other party" needs to sharpen their message, offer specific ideas, not just ugly rhetoric and trashy posters. Or, they will flame out or be absorbed.

Offering specific ideas, along with hope, is also a problem for the Repub's. They have been negative for so long, on the defense for so long, if they can't turn that around they will remain out of power. Doesn't matter HOW they got there, they are there now!

Take their latest shenanigans for instance, blocking several of Obama's appointee's for office. Why? No specific logical reason, just being azz's, just thumbing their nose at the administration. The American people are not blind to this, it does nothing to promote a perception of fair play, reaching across the aisle, trying to find some common ground. It just makes them look silly.

Again, I don't say this because I'm right, left or center, it's just an observation.

[Ralphy]

55 to 41 against. Rasmussen has one of the best records in polling.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform


Polls suggest healthcare debate a boon to GOP candidates running for Senate

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign...ate-candidates