Its over, the Dems win

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Anthony it sounds like you are saying the OMB are clueless, it's their numbers, their math, not mine.

The government seems to use "fresh out of school" PhD's to write the rules, like they did with the auto bailout, people who probably donlt understand the relative importance of different factors playing into the equation.

One who blindly agrees with anybody/anything, without a good understanding of the specifics in question, makes me believe they are clueless.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Fair enough, you don't believe the numbers or the calculations. Myself, I won't dismiss them out of hand. But as the OMB has made clear, it is extremely difficult to forecast these numbers so far into the future. So there is reason for doubt. Savings on Medicare is only a part of the overall calculations. Increased taxes also play a roll.

Personally I think the best way to save money on Medicare is to more aggresively go after fraud, which is rampant. Factoring in fraud would constitute a HUGE inefficency within Health Care. I would say more than the proposed 33%.

There you go, believeing in facts that in my opinion are clearly unsubstantiated, the waste thing, fraud thing, inefficiency thing. I can tell you, I know alot of doctors/hospital systems, and there rarely is fraud, I mean rarely. There are some fly by night companies that bill for ficticious patients, that are clearly fraud, but that is really rare. It just doesn't occur to nearly the level you and the rest of the country is led to believe. The money is not there to save. It will have to be funded by reducing services offered, increasing taxes, or more likely both. I'm already thinking about hiring some PA's to take care of my Medicare patients, so I don;t have to, and I will still get payed the same. Just think of it, patients will now be treated by PA's, NP's instead of doctors. The medical industry is alot more efficient than what people think, and definitely alot more efficient than the government. You have good ideals, but that is all they are, ideals that really don't make any good sense on how to implement.

[bomelia]

Does anybody hav a link to that article about the OMB I was referring to (and Excal answered). Please? I cannot find it.

Thanks!

Mike

[Ralphy]

Bomelia I read that article maybe 2 days ago. Also hows about paying for healthcare 4 years in advance so they could fudge the numbers by the CBO. Ex, it's all an illusionnn......

Originally Posted by bomelia

Does anybody hav a link to that article about the OMB I was referring to (and Excal answered). Please? I cannot find it.

Thanks!

Mike

[Excaliber]

Checks and balances aren't perfect, but aren't you glad we have them?

Interesting observation on the PA issue Anthony. We will need to address that soon, I see PA's as the wave of the future. Perhaps I missed the boat on my education priorities?

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

Bomelia I read that article maybe 2 days ago. Also hows about paying for healthcare 4 years in advance so they could fudge the numbers by the CBO. Ex, it's all an illusionnn......

Yeah, but somebody plz help me find it!

[Wayne Maybury]

A couple of comments about Canada's healthcare system, drugs, etc.

Firstly most Canadians have a relatively positive opinion about our healthcare system. The problems lie in the over crowding primarily because people go to the ER's, that do not really need professional care. I firmly believe that there should be a minimal charge for visiting a doctor or hospital. This would put dollars into the system and more importantly, it would reduce the number of unnecessary visits. We also have a problem with non-citizens coming into the country to obtain free health care that they cannot get in their own country. Our Medicare cards are being updated in an attempt to cut down on fraud.

Secondly, the drug manufacturers have nothing to do with our socialized healthcare system. These pharmaceutical companies are usually Canadian subsidiaries of US or other major drug companies. Our laws protecting name brand drugs are not exactly the same as the US laws however. Many US citizens, especially the elderly, living close to the Canadian border routinely come up here to get their perscriptions as our prices tend to be lower. This was especially true before the US dollar went in the toilet but that is another story.

Each country has it's own drug approval process. The US has the FDA and Canada has Health Canada. Our two countries work in a very similar way but there is no guarantee that a drug approved in the US will also be approved in Canada, and vice versa. That does not mean to say that drugs authorized for sale in Canada are dangerous or unsafe, they are just not (yet) authorized for sale in the US. Most dangerous drugs tend to be produced somewhere in the world and then sold over the internet by who-knows-who. These internet drug sites can indeed be selling dangerous products as they are totally uncontrolled.

Wayne

[Ron61]

Wayne,

The people flooding to the emergency rooms is a problem here already and this crappy so called health care bill isn't even law yet. They have had two investigations into the two hospitals here about people going to the emergency room and having to wait hours for any treatment. But first they don't work them like a triage and take the worst first regardless of when they came in, and second we have to many that ruin in every time they get a splinter in their finger and it is free so they just fill the emergency rooms up all day long. It is also another great excuse for getting a day off work and still getting paid for it. I don't know what they can do about it as it isn't the hospitals fault, and they are already short of doctors and nurses. I think a minimum charge would be a great idea. All the investigations came up with was they have to do better, but no suggestions as to how.

Ron

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by Wayne Maybury

A couple of comments about Canada's healthcare system, drugs, etc.

Firstly most Canadians have a relatively positive opinion about our healthcare system. The problems lie in the over crowding primarily because people go to the ER's, that do not really need professional care. I firmly believe that there should be a minimal charge for visiting a doctor or hospital. This would put dollars into the system and more importantly, it would reduce the number of unnecessary visits. We also have a problem with non-citizens coming into the country to obtain free health care that they cannot get in their own country. Our Medicare cards are being updated in an attempt to cut down on fraud.

Secondly, the drug manufacturers have nothing to do with our socialized healthcare system. These pharmaceutical companies are usually Canadian subsidiaries of US or other major drug companies. Our laws protecting name brand drugs are not exactly the same as the US laws however. Many US citizens, especially the elderly, living close to the Canadian border routinely come up here to get their perscriptions as our prices tend to be lower. This was especially true before the US dollar went in the toilet but that is another story.

Each country has it's own drug approval process. The US has the FDA and Canada has Health Canada. Our two countries work in a very similar way but there is no guarantee that a drug approved in the US will also be approved in Canada, and vice versa. That does not mean to say that drugs authorized for sale in Canada are dangerous or unsafe, they are just not (yet) authorized for sale in the US. Most dangerous drugs tend to be produced somewhere in the world and then sold over the internet by who-knows-who. These internet drug sites can indeed be selling dangerous products as they are totally uncontrolled.

Wayne

Funny Wayne, I worked in health care just south of you for years, in northern New England, and many of the Canadians that could afford it would come to the states for their healthcare... I saw it over and over again. And they weren't shy about expressing their distaste for your socialist system!

Alternatively, we had a family friend who lost a spouse due to delayed care in the UK's wonderful system.

This isn't going to be pretty...