Insurance & Ethics?

[imagine2frolic]

I am wondering can these 2 words be put together? I am hoping they can, so I can find a new agent. This policy is for my catamaran sailboat, and the agent has left me without insurance. Here goes the story.

Last year while in the Bahamas I called my agent to make sure that they recieved my check. Yes, they had recieved it, but not my new survey of the boat, IMAGINE, that was requested. My fault I missed that one sentence in a 5 page letter that was located near the back.

I sail back to Florida 2 months early to get the boat hauled, and surveyed. While I am in the yard the agent informs me that I no longer have insurance, so don't have the boat launched until my survey clears. I sit in the yard for about 10 days waiting for approval. I get approval 2 months after my insurance has expired. My anniversary date being 3/08. The new check cashed on May 5th.

During this time my boat is broken into, and many valuables stolen. Since the agent has informed me that I was not covered I never called, or made a claim. Now the discrepency begins. I believe I am covered May to May, but they want payment in March. I call my agent, and ask why it isn't May. He says that my anniversary date is March, so I ask him a total of three times to make sure of this statement.

Now that I realize that I was actually covered I inform him that my boat was burglarized. I have never heard someone with such good speech stutter so much. He says I should have called. My reasoning is WHY, since I was informed I was not covered while I was in the yard.

Now this conversation is taking place on Feb 28th, and he says he will have to get back to me. I ask, later in the day, or tomorrow, and he says YES. I am waiting for his reply to our differences before I send my new policy check.

On the 8th of March early in the afternoon while doing some paperwork I notice it is the 8th. I immediatley call the agent to find out what his decision is. He doesn't take my call. At 5:43 that same day he calls to tell me I need to seek insurance someplace else.

I am sure he has done nothing illegall, but I am now left without insurance, and not able to find a new policy as of yet. He also knows not many are writing new policies, and to wait until 5:43 on the last afternoon to renew my policy is a wee bit unethical.

1st option was a call to a lawyer, and I was informed that I got shafted with no recourse. The 2nd option was the state commissioner, and they are now trying to figure it all out. The 3rd, and most beautiful option is the right to free speech. So here I am on my soapbox asking the question. Can the 2 words on insurance, and ethics be put together?

If you search my images you can see I would be devastated to lose my boat!

[Art Burtt]

I'd say you need a new agent/company check with your Home Owners policy for losses due to theft.

[trularin]

1. how much was stolen?
2. what will it cost to sue the agent?
3. what was the premium?

And last, what is you aggravation worth?

File a claim with the state for his actions. Find another agent with a reputable firm that you can sue without playing "hide and seek".

Hey, it's just a thought

[Ron61]

Sorry to hear about your mess. Some insurance companies can be a real pain to deal with, unless it is collecting the premium. Why are other companies not writing new policies. I would think that with all of the boats in Florida, you could find insurance without a lot of trouble. Maybe at a pretty high premium. What happened to the money that you sent in to pay the insurance? If they got it in March, it would seem that the boat should certainly be covered in May.

Ron

[imagine2frolic]

Ron61, the company recieved the check in Feb., but because they wanted a new survey they held the check until May. That would be fine, but they told me I was not insured during the time in the yard. I believe my policy should start when they cash the check?

Trularin, the premium is just under $5,000, and approximently 5-8,000 was stolen. The down payment for the lawyer is 5k also. My concern is not the theft, but when my policy started. I feel as though they are cheating me out of 2 months, and that = about $700.00.

If I wasn't covered then start my policy when the check was cashed. If I was covered then I have a claim, but don't calll me with 17 minutes left in the day on the last day to dump me! That is my issue. He could have dumped me 10 days before my policy ended. A little vindictiveness for making him stutter I guess?????????????????????

[Ron61]

I don't know about the boat insurance companies, but the one that I have my Cobra with does start the minute the check clears. But they always send the renewal a month or so ahead of the actual billing date so that I have an overlap and am never uninsured.

Ron

[imagine2frolic]

Ron, this is why I am in contact with the state insurance commisioner's office. I am hoping they can sort things out, or tell me exactly where legally I stand.

Once I had my fingers cut off, and drove straight to the hospital. The insurance company denied me coverage, because I didn't call them first. Eventually the state of Ca. forced them to pay half, and the city of SF paid the other half, because I was a victim of a violent crime.

I look at all the victims of Katrina, and I don't hold much confidence in the insurance companies. Including my own finger experience.

[mrmustang]

First thing you need to do is find your actual policy and see when your "coverage period" is. If it's March 15th 06 to March 15th 07, or April 15th to April 15th, then you know whether or not you fall into the enforcement of that coverage or not.

Personally, it sounds like the agent dropped the ball on the renewal and that he might be held liable if and when you go to court over this.

Bill S.

[imagine2frolic]

Hopefully the state can resolve the timeline issue. My main issue is the way he waited until the last 17 minutes of the day to dump me. He knew he was leaving me without insurance. As I said he probably broke no laws, but his behaviour is extremely UNETHICAL.

What goes around, comes around. I just wish I could be that fly on the wall to see his just dues delivered. In the mean time. If someone can help with a policy for a 46ft. cold moulded catamaran....HEEEELLLLLLPPPPP!.......LOL

[mn12]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I had my last boat a 44ft motorsailor insured with defender as in the defender marine catalog. Unfortunately we lost our boat due to a combination of damage from Francis and Jeanne but they paid out the claim without issue.

[mrmustang]

http://www.boatinsuranceflorida.com/
http://www.boatowners.com/insurance.htm

And believe it or not

http://www.geico.com/landingpage/boa...FQUHQQoduwsdGQ

[wtm442]

Boy, do you need a jar of Vaseline! I'm amazed you have not punched the agent in the face!

I cannot help you find insurance ... no boat for me. But you might want to call your other agent(s) for your house and/or cars and ask for a comprehensive package (cover everything). Maybe even an "Umbrella Policy".

I'd also wait until you get a reply from the state insurance agency before trying anything (re: lawsuit).

If the state insurance agency says you "could" sue for damages, the cost of the lawyer would offset any money you would get out of a settlement. If that's the case, I'd bring the agent to "Small Claims" court where you do not need a lawyer. Here in Taxxachusetts the max money under the Small Claims division is $10,000. I'm assuming there is a Small Claims Court in Florida.

Could bring you some satisfaction at low cost, no matter if you were looking for the $700 or $8000.

Good Luck

[imagine2frolic]

As of last night just before 5pm the agent has refused to return any calls to the state commission's office, since March 9th. Although his secretary did return a call giving the commissioner's office the wrong insurance company.

I also this morning recieved a letter from the company direct, and they have given a quote to another broker. They also reminded me that my arguement is with the broker, and I do agree. I just wanted to make them aware of who is representing them.

My main problem is the boat is all wood, mahogany. The word wood scares the hell out of the insurance industry. Although it is in a cold molded fashion which makes it one of the strongest materials boats are made of.

If you take a piece of steel, and flex it 10 million times it loses 80% of it's strength. Cold molded only loses 40%, but the only thing they comprehend is the word WOOD.

I am also keeping in mind the small claims court. Then again there is a sailing magazine that over the years I have been published in several times. I think once I figure out where I stand. It is a good soapbox to scream from. The sailing community is much like this community. I

[imagine2frolic]

OOPS....Information spreads quickly. Both good, and bad.

[Ron61]

I hope that things start going better for you quickly. Sounds as if the insurance company should get rid of that broker. One of the big home owner insurance companies fired one of their brokers out in this area about 4 years ago for giving people runarounds on claims and then telling them they had waited to long to file. Several called or contacted the company directly and they sent a man out from the main office to look at the records and see just what this broker was doing. All the people that had complaints got a letter of apology from the company along with a check to settle their claims, and the ones that had been suspended were reinstated with no back charges. Hope you can have the same kind of ending to your mess.

Ron

[uncltodd]

Please stay after your state's insurance commissioner, do not underestimate the intimidation/embarrassment factor a state government can use to smother an insurance carrier, especially in a state like Florida.

That's why I love Oklahoma... only 3.5 million people, but I am only five phone calls away from the Governor, and I am nobody and nothing.

UT

[Wayne Maybury]

I had a bit of a run around with my boat insurance broker. They told me that the company that they had been representing wasn't issuing marine insurance any more. I started shopping around, got a few quotes, etc. only to get a call from my broker stating that they would be happy to write me a policy issued by another insurance company and at a slightly lower rate. Of course I had to get my boat surveyed first.

I have a 33.5' glass mono hull which is kept in fresh water 6 months of the year and on it's cradle the other 6 months.

Wayne

[imagine2frolic]

It seems with my ex-broker the ethics is pretty low. Since March ninth as of yesterday, 4-5-7, he has refused to personally personally return calls from the State's insurance commissioner. His secretary has returned a call, but she gave a completely different company that covered me. After the comissioner found this was NOT true they were given yet another false company on a second call from the secretary. This all began on the 9th of March. I am sure the plot will begin to thicken as the heat is applied.

[mn12]

Keep us posted. I am going to get some popcorn

[TonyMadrid]

Sorry to hear about your ordeal.

I am not that familiar with boat insurance, but with car insurance, coverage usually begins at 12:01 am on the date that the policy is bound. When dealing with an agent or broker, that occurs the minute you hand a premium check over to the agent and the agent gives you an insurance ID card.

First, I would start with a thorough review of the policy declaration page. This is the sheet that lists the coverage dates (poliicy period) and it also lists the various coverages, i.e., fire, theft. liability, etc.

Second, I would seek out advice from an attorney that specializes in insurance issues, especially coverage issus.

Thirdly, I would follow-uo with a complaint to the State Insurance Department. If you have already done this, stay on top of it.

Next, if it's the agent or broker who caused the problem by something he did or did not do, I would pursue a claim against him. Agents are supposed to carry an E&O policy (errors and omissions policy).

Finally, if for nothing else but for a matter of principal, I would sue, both the carrier and the agent. I see you are in Florida and I believe that in Florida you can sue for treble damages (three times the loss incurred) plus your out of pocket expenses and your attorney fees. I would also look into suing for "bad faith" in that you paid for a policy in "good faith" and the carrier did not act in "good faith". Every state has stautes covering "fair claims handling".

If you are successful with a "bad faith" action, courts usually grant compensatory damages (the actual loss you incurred plus your expenses) and PUNITIVE damages. Punies are the biggie and could amount to a home run in the millions. Many carriers, when they hear the words "bad faith action" are quick to settle rather than have to face a bad faith action.

Good Luck and I hope you are successful, and don't give up and don't give in.

Tony