I would like to post something that may contribute to this conversation. I have a 28 year old firend in Iraq on his fourth tour. He is a nurse, and as such sees the worst of the bad and even when it's good, it's bad. Note his comments about Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy.

"Well...
I cried yesterday... never thought it would get to me, especially after doing 4 of these trips without an incident. 1 U.S. soldier was coming to my ICU and they said he would be on paliative care, which means comfort only, no life saving procedures were to be given. About 6 or so of us sat at his bedside not saying a word, he was 22 years old. One of the nurses suggested that I go to the PAD and ask if we could get a family member on the phone to say some last words to him. I grabbed his paperwork and brought it to the Army personel responsible for contacting family and as i began to ask them if it was possible, i lost it... I realized it wasn't really about the kid in the ICU it was now about the family. He was going to pass and the family would be left to grieve and i could feel the pain they were about to experience. I went back to the patient and the doctor requested that i take him off the ventilator in 10 minutes. It's a very difficult thing to do when it's your piece of equipment that is keeping him alive. He had a massive injury to the head and for all intentions...he was already dead. We didn't treat it like that though, we cleaned him from head to toe, talked to him, prayed with him and the chaplin... the family never called, probably couldn't get through or the message didn't arrive, who knows. I removed him from the vent after looking at everyone in the room, i had to for some reason, almost make sure it was ok i guess. After, he was covered in a flag, the room called to attention and he was transported...

So it was a hard day, i was exhausted but i had to blow it off, i had 5 other patients waiting for me.
The next day, Garey Sinise...(lt. dan ) from forrest gump came through the icu's and met with the patients. It's nice when they come through, they're usually pretty gracious. I took a picture and emailed it to one of my patients house and printed him a copy, he seemed to get a kick out of it.

So it's pretty crazy over here, every day brings something i haven't done or seen ever in my life. Today 3 injured came in, two died the second had his chest cut wide open while i was assisting with intubation and ventilating...they pulled one of his lungs partially out of the hole in his chest and as i gave him breath, bubbles and blood shot out of the holes throughout his lungs. Seconds later they pronounced him. The third guy turned out to be his Father and he was shouting his sons name in the ER...

So it seems that this place is very morbid, but there are good things that happen all the time as well, i just rarely get to see it because of the nature of my position. There's always ugliness to war, but this is necessary because the option will ultimately prove to be worse, what affects one side of the globe will affect us... instability spreads fast and can't be ignored. When we leave this region prematurely thanks to our now psychotic house/senate remember what i've said and remember the lives lost that i've talked about. They will make this a "failure" not the Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine, and "they" are the Nancy Pelosi's, the Kennedy's, the extreme left that has infected our government.

Sorry i get on political soap box's. If you pray for the soldiers, throw another one in for our government and where it's going.

So...how are you guys? It's getting hot, our A/C goes out all the time lately which is pretty hard on the patients over here, pretty hard on everyone really. I can't wait to get home, my family, my car, my bed, a bathroom close as 10 feet away!!! it's the little things.

Just an fyi, It took me all day to right this. Hellicopters with inbound patients, emergencies...blah blah blah it never ends. Learning lot's over here.
Sorry this is so morbid, just trying to put it all in perspective.

more updates to come..."

I hope that Ms. Pelosi realizes that a lot of these men will return to her district in the PRC (Peoples Repbulic of California) and as such will be part of the voting public. Not that it will make any difference to the first woman speaker of the house.. Of course each of my ex wives was also the speaker of the house.

:cool:

Dan

Actually I think I'd have a warm and fuzzy feeling if he was standing with me. I'd only be scared if he was against me.

chopper

Interesting statistics. Those we do not often hear ....%/

Chopper

3500 US servicemen have given their lives
25,000 have been maimed
65,000 Iraqi civilians have died

War is ugly.

Andrew

Its very presicient of you to quote your statistics. I guess you are questioning the price? I know you will not like this question, but how many of the killed and maimed were Canadiens?

Mike

Mike

Canada is not in Iraq. We have lost 21 killed in Afghanistan. And yes I think the price is high.

Andrew

Yes, it is. If you think it's ugly now, wait until the dirty bomb explodes in Chicago or Montreal. The only reason it hasn't is because the "religion of peace" hasn't figured out how to do it yet.

You forgot in your little list to mention 3000 American citizens who perished on Sept 11 2001, but then, that little factiod seems to continually be dropped by liberals from the discussion.

The blame for all of this falls on the fanatical Muslims who started the mess, NOT on the US military or GW Bush. Perhaps the liberal ostriches would be better able to "Support The Troops" if they protested the kidnappings, beheadings, murders, rapes and associated other hijinks fostered by the "Religion of Peace" rather than pulling the rug out from under our own folks.

Of course, I am just guessing...but had we done nothing in Iraq and Afganhistan after 9/11 (like we had been doing for the last 10-20 years) then we would have been hit again. I have read that UBL was a bit more than shocked at our reaction...and this has pretty much kept them away. Nobody likes to mention this because nobody wants to have these kind of comments brought up later as "proof" I (or whoever said it) was wrong. But it has been 5 years of no bad news in the continental US. So, if this had happened, and we had done nothing, then the criticism would loud 'sho nuff.

aharris, Canada lost 21 good soldiers in a good and just cause. I know I am honored by that. Just wish you felt the same about our men & women in arms (who were lost), and the cause they fight for. But somewhow I don't think you see it as a cause that you are invested in. and that is where we differ.

honest to God! Do you REALLY believe if we pulled all of our forces out TOMORROW, that we would remain safe here and abroad?????

http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/d...r_dead_map.jpg

Seems like the area of the country bearing the brutal brunt of the burden is the upper midwest and northeast. Maine seems to have more children sacrificed than California. Look at "taxachusetts"!

The only places that seem barren, are the barren areas in the middle of nowhere.

I'm sorry for the lost of your son, and understand your lashing out at any hint that his and your sacrifice was made in vain. But please don't make other parents pay your price to salve your anger.

Mike and Chopper

I think that the soldiers are doing the best job they can. I appreciate that they are willing to do the hard stuff for me. If the troops were pulled out tomorrow, God knows what would happen. I'm sure there would be chaos in Iraq.

Chopper, you are right. The 3000 are part of the equation too. I apologise for not including that number.

But put youself in the average Iraqi's place. You have an occupying foreign force in your country that has been ineffective in reducing the violence (more than 26,000 civilian deaths in the past year) or significantly improving my way of life. I'm sure I would be saying thanks very much but please leave.

Mike, you are making the assumption that the lack of incident on US soil is due to the occupation of Iraq. Perhaps it is due to the increased security at borders, or the increased focus by police forces on discovering "terrorist" cells in other countries. I'm hard pressed to see how having troops remain in Iraq maintains security back home.

Perhaps there have been no new attacks because the "terrorists" are satisfied with the effect they have had on the West. Higher prices, increased restrictions on travel, increased government powers, more isolationist policies.

You can't believe that "questioning policy" automatically equates with an attack on the brave men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Andrew

I call myself a liberal.

I can take the abuse.

In my opinion, it is the people from the right who lash out. They lash out, put down and blame others for actions they supported at one time, made by people they believed in at one time.

It is all about spin. They spin their anger back upon the people who can most honestly say "I told you so", and spew vitrolic hatred at anyone who disagrees with them. They are a pack of men happiest behind the scenes, away from real danger, who can pound the keyboards but not a real person.

I am really tired of the abuse being heaped upon me as a representative of, if not the truly out-there left, at least the large population of us who are slightly to moderately left of center.

I call myself a conservative.

I can take the abuse.

In my opinion, it is the people from the left who lash out. They lash out, put down and blame others for actions they supported at one time, made by people they believed in at one time.

It is all about spin. They spin their anger back upon the people who can most honestly say "I told you so", and spew vitrolic hatred at anyone who disagrees with them. They are a pack of men happiest behind the scenes, away from real danger, who can pound the keyboards but not a real person.

I am really tired of the abuse being heaped upon me as a representative of, if not the truly out-there right, at least the large population of us who are slightly to moderately right of center.

Too much television! People have grown used to seeing the earth shaking situations solved in a hour or less by some unsung private eye or cowboy or other type of hero or heroin and they have lost the sense of reality and the will to fight for something until they are defeated or until they can fight no longer.

War is no place for a person who lacks commitment. War is a terrible thing to endure and worse to watch. When you're butt is in the weeds and you are fighting for your life and the lives of your comrads, you rarely have time to think about what's going on. I often thought it was easier being in Vietnam than it was being home and watching about Vietnam on TV and hearing the lies and the half truths that were being passed around like gospel. Had we pressed a while longer, the north was about spent and all but ready to surrender. Read what the Vietnamese said after the US pulled out. They didn't win, the US lost. They quit. We quit.

Seems we are bound to repeat the same mistakes, just like we did in the first Gulf war, again. This time, the consequences will be far reaching and will undoubtedly strike in the heartland of America.. or Canada. It doesn't matter to the falangists. They just want to strike a blow for Allah.

If the troops were pulled out tomorrow, God knows what would happen. I'm sure there would be chaos in Iraq.

But put youself in the average Iraqi's place. You have an occupying foreign force in your country that has been ineffective in reducing the violence (more than 26,000 civilian deaths in the past year) or significantly improving my way of life. I'm sure I would be saying thanks very much but please leave.

:confused: :confused:

Beancounter, you beat me to it. Dan, a voice of reason.

Mike

Trying to get back to the original post, or close to it. I have to say that liberals do seem to be more active with their opinions in the form of bumper stickers, demonstrations, initiatives (I don't include jounalists, radio, tv, which have pundits from both sides).
Being on the west coast, this may be a skewed view, but most of the political bumper stickers are liberal in nature covering a variety of subjects. The most I see from the conservative side are 'Support our Troops' (which both liberals or conservatives might display) or 'God bless America'. I don't recall ever seeing a political bumper sticker that is conservative.

Same for demonstrations. Generally, the liberals get out and have something to say.

Is that too much of a generalization or do others notice this?

I'm one of those un-opinionated middle of the road people. Which onlymeans sometimes I lean left and sometimes I lean right, depending upon subject.

Its true! Conservatives are by their very nature, well, uh, conservative. Instead of shouting silly slogans and printing bumber stickers, they would rather spend time discussing and strategizing. Both methods work, obviously. But because conservatives don't (as a rule) rally, protest, and sloganize does not mean that they (we, or me) do not care. And certainly there are no strict boundaries, some conservatives do protest (witness abortion centers and so on) and some liberals like to think (blogs, op-eds, etc).

Here is the crux. Liberals tend to lean towards emotionalism, stirring up the masses. Conservatives like to try appealing to one's logical side. What can you say? We are all different. Leaders are those who can do it all. Doesn't mean they are good leaders, but they lead none the less. Its really funny to watch liberals try to do intillectual stuff and even funnier to watch conservatives do emotional stuff. It rarely works. But the intended audience gets the point.

Mike

Mike,
I actually wish that conservatives would be unemotional. Perhaps then we would be able to analyze our problems and actually fix them.

Right now I see a lot of people on the left hollering about all kinds of things without offering a fix. I also see a lot of people on the right crying 'traitor' every time someone disagrees with them.

We have massive problems with a lot of things, but folks on the right frequently end up saying that you hate America if you point out any of those flaws.

I'm sick of the lack of ability to find solutions of the majority of the left, but I'm even more sick of the blinders that many on the right wear.

Steve

Blinders my ass...we simply keep our eyes on the ball.

Well, then maybe its time to actually pick it up and do something with the bloody thing instead of making things worse.

Steve

As least we're in the game instead of b!tching from the sidelines. :p