important info for our times

[Excaliber]

I don't have a clue how were going to get a handle on the social security issue, it's going in the red for sure in due time. What plans do the other candidates offer that sound better? Were going to have to do something, of that there is no doubt.

I do know this, to compare social security taxes of the foreign countries mentioned to our social security tax is grossly misleading. It suggest that taxes in general are far less than they are in the USA, which is not even close to true. Taxes are way higher in the UK, for instance, the extreme price of gas, which is mostly due to tax. There just taxing their people in a different way.

Another burning issue is Health Care. I like Hawaii's method myself. An employer is required by law to provide health insurance to it's employees. Sometimes the insurance isn't that good and might come with a big co-pay if you use it. Other plans allow the employee to pay a reasonable percentage out of his pocket to gain a much better health plan overall. There is State sponsored insurance plans with little or no cost for those who are unemployed or live below the poverty level. All in all, it seems to work pretty well. Maybe thats why our taxes are so freakin' high here! There is no free lunch.

[Wes Tausend]

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Ernie,

I've got to truly admire how you can keep a cool head under fire. Seriously.

That's probably also one of Obamas' amazing traits, that he can remain so entirely rational under fire from, not only the Clintons, but also the usual political smearing from the opposite party. Barrack exhibits the actual appearance of being bullet-proof, often an elusive quality ...even on this forum.

Remaining cool has been one of McCains weak spots, one he has made great effort to overcome. But in his defense, I'd be a little twitchy too, especially if I'd endured what he has, even recently from new thinkers in his own party, for cripes sakes.

Somebody had earlier mentioned voting percentages on this thread. I found an interesting website that relates directly:
( http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c.../vote-missers/ )
I imagine the % record varies a bit from week to week but the gist is there.

Some examples of percent missed:
McCain 56.4% missed
Barrack 37.4%
Hillary 26.8%
Kennedy 7.8%
Kerry 4.7%
Elizabeth Dole only missed 3.6% ...nice lady whom my wife likes
Byron Dorgan 1.5% and Kent Conrad 1.3% ...both North Dakota senators.

I'm sorry if I earlier made it look like I took advantage of Rons' offer to sacrifice you. I know he was kidding. I like your posts, just had to thow in my 2 cents.


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[427sharpe]

McCains % is high because he was out 3 months with medical problems...
I am not 'smearing' the opposition or 'firing' at Ernie. I engaged in a rational debate because I do not envision my government continuing to be a nanny for people too lazy to do for themselves. As for SSN, I do not anticipate it being there when I retire, so I see my 'investment' as a lost cause. Hence, I PLAN FOR MYSELF. I just want others to do the same. I refuse to fall into the belief that the government can make anything better for me & mine than I can for myself. As for taxing the US population @ 7% GDP for global poverty relief.....well, BO can read my avatar on that one!
And Ron and Wes both dodged the central issue of my post: how much of YOUR money are you willing to give to the feds?
A interesting side note, in BO's plan, he envisions the IRS doing your taxes for you and forwarding them for your signature (and a check, I suppose...). Another nail in his candidacy for me....

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by 427sharpe

McCains % is high because he was out 3 months with medical problems...
I am not 'smearing' the opposition or 'firing' at Ernie. I engaged in a rational debate because I do not envision my government continuing to be a nanny for people too lazy to do for themselves. As for SSN, I do not anticipate it being there when I retire, so I see my 'investment' as a lost cause. Hence, I PLAN FOR MYSELF. I just want others to do the same. I refuse to fall into the belief that the government can make anything better for me & mine than I can for myself. As for taxing the US population @ 7% GDP for global poverty relief.....well, BO can read my avatar on that one!
And Ron and Wes both dodged the central issue of my post: how much of YOUR money are you willing to give to the feds?
A interesting side note, in BO's plan, he envisions the IRS doing your taxes for you and forwarding them for your signature (and a check, I suppose...). Another nail in his candidacy for me....

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Originally Posted by 427sharpe

McCains % is high because he was out 3 months with medical problems...
I am not 'smearing' the opposition or 'firing' at Ernie. I engaged in a rational debate

I don't have a problem with the percent but I thought the link I passed as interesting. I would be more concerned with a single particular issue that someone avoided. I agree you are rational.

because I do not envision my government continuing to be a nanny for people too lazy to do for themselves.

...I guess technically a government is a nanny for people and they, as the governed people are the nanny, taking care of one another. But you, like I, are probably concerned more with some people doing all the work and slackers taking benefit. My contention is the top financial 5th of population, slackers, cost us way more than the bottom 5th, also slackers.

As for SSN, I do not anticipate it being there when I retire, so I see my 'investment' as a lost cause. Hence, I PLAN FOR MYSELF. I just want others to do the same. I refuse to fall into the belief that the government can make anything better for me & mine than I can for myself.

No pile of money is safe. But SS is a lot more secure than your 401K as you may have noticed lately. Actually SS is a lot more stable than propaganda would have you believe. Perhaps someone has their eye on your share of the pile and wants you to help move it to a more accessible venue such as 401K. Ever cross your mind? Where do you think is a safe place for retirement money? Where do you feel you have the most control over it? The top 5th can be pretty tricky sometimes.

As for taxing the US population @ 7% GDP for global poverty relief.....well, BO can read my avatar on that one!

Not sure. I wouldn't want to send money without sending birth control. Otherwise it's like throwing food over the fence to rabbits ...to keep them out of the garden. At first there is enough food to go around...

P.S. Someone posted a full size copy of your avatar amongst motivational posters at work. It really blended in and it was there for well over a month before management found it. I've worked in management off and on in the past and I still thought it was funny as H.

And Ron and Wes both dodged the central issue of my post: how much of YOUR money are you willing to give to the feds?

Being part of the working class, I already pay all the taxes. People above and below the working class don't pay any. Well how could they, they don't create anything. So I'm OK for paying whatever percent of taxes that it takes as long as it's all paid back out to the working class. Wouldn't matter if it were 100% as long as I get it all back now, would it? Who do you think should get your money? Any of it. That is the question.

A interesting side note, in BO's plan, he envisions the IRS doing your taxes for you and forwarding them for your signature (and a check, I suppose...). Another nail in his candidacy for me....

The IRS already pays people to do (or calculate) my taxes and there is nothing I can do about it. Makes sense to me to just wait until they send me a bill with no further effort on my part necessary. Saves a stamp.

Now, personally, I would like a chance to audit what they did of course. Maybe call them in for it, my choice. There would be a penalty for them making an error.

And then I would like everybody to pay their tax bill out of their Special Mandatory Tax Savings Account instead of having it quietly with-held all year. For one thing I would like to collect the interest; for another, I think everybody would be less tolerant of government spending if everybody had to suddenly part with the money that seemed like it was really theirs to start with. Hey! It was theirs...

I would like you to regard all this as tongue and cheek. I'm only semi-serious, but it's nice to think differently sometimes.


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[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

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I would like you to regard all this as tongue and cheek. I'm only semi-serious, but it's nice to think differently sometimes.


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I do...I am not as radical as my typing sounds.

[Ron61]

Wes,

I agree with Ernie on his points. I don't see how just raising taxes is going to save Social Security as they will just take the money and use it for their own projects anyway. That is what happened to a huge amount of what used to be in the Social Security fund. Congress moved it into the General fund so they could use it for pay raises or anything else they wanted. And I also don't think just trying to make the wealthy pay more is any solution. All they should do is have to pay their fair share which many of them do already. I wish I had some kind of idea of how to start solving the mess the country is in, but it can't be done by any one person and certainly not in a year or so.
And as for the percentage of people voting, they published the percent for Shasta County yesterday and I was completely surprised. I know this is a sparsely populated area, but I think only 40 some percent of the REGISTERED voters voted and there are many who don't even register. And the ones who don't vote are the ones doing most of the loud crying.

Ron

[RAZOR]

Is their a solution that Obama offers that doesn't include raising taxes and bigger government? Education, soc sec, health care, race relations,its all the same fix more money, more government.