10 Cars That Sank Detroit

[joyridin']

Remember the Pinto's catching fire? The shield that prevented the fires was supposedly a 5 cent part. The management at Ford at the time chose to save 5 cents and pay the insurance claims.

Sorry, most of this isn't about unions. Most of it is about penny-pinchers thinking they are engineers. I have a buddy that is an engineer at Chrysler. He could go on for hours on how the accountants at Chrysler saved a penny here and a penny there only to have a huge warranty issue in the end. It is still cheaper than making the cars right.

[Bobcat]

Unfortunately I do remember that issue with the Pinto . I came on an accident in Augusta , GA shortly after it happened .... a Pinto was rear ended as it was trying to merge onto the express way and caught fire . I can still see the two bodies in the back seat with the car on fire and the emergency workers unable to do anything about it . Later , the news said two children died in the fire .
As far as I`m concerned , whoever made the decision to not properly shield the gas tank should be put in the back seat of a Pinto and have the car rear ended !

[trularin]

The largest problem these automakers have is most of them seem to be rather top heavy and operate ( even to this day ) in the "good ol' boy" network.

Before I go into a rant, let me just say that these companies need to understand their own problems before they will fix them.

[Bill Bess]

Hey Now..I just got to weighin on this one.

Think back to the 50's, cheap cars..buy a new one every two years..no problem.
60's, bigger cars, more HP, still cheap to buy..same poor quality.
70's, really junk quality..getting more expense..really poor quality, had to do a valve job every 35'000 miles and hope to hick the darn thing lasted until it was paid for.
80's , still junk, slightly better quality, too many mis guide attempts to improve, they provided too many new variations of the same old stuff.
90's, better quality, more dependable, more expensive, poor service from dealers, couldn't compete with the continuing imports.
2000, much improve quality and reliability, improve mileage and performance, but too many models that nobody wanted and staggering increases in costs. Too many government reulations and requirements, Unreasonable Union demands and stupid contracts...no end to their stupidity.

Anyway, here we are in a situation that doesn't give the car companies much wiggle room, no way out and they will fail. Whos' fault is it?

I think it part public perception ( mindset) that foriegn cars have better quality, Americans that won't support their own countrys products, Unions, greedy CEO's and very poor leadership in the big three.

Buy one of the big three now...Obama will cover the warranty forever! How can you beat that deal.

Bill

[Ron61]

Bill,

I think it part public perception ( mindset) that foreign cars have better quality, Americans that won't support their own countrys products, Unions, greedy CEO's and very poor leadership in the big three.

I agree with you on that, but it is getting hard to find anything made in America any more. Go to any store and look through everything you see and look at the tags to see where it was made. I have a couple of magazines that you can order American made clothing and stuff from, but the stores here have 99% of their stuff with tags of Made in China, Japan, Korea, & etc.

As for the mindset, you are right, but it was created by the car companies and their greed and like a first impression, after years of shoddy products it is hard to change overnight. I think that Greed is the biggest factor in the fall of the American car companies and also in many other factories and companies. I hope that it can be turned around, but it isn't going to happen in a hurry. And hearing every day about those CEOs getting more millions in bonuses isn't going to help the cause any either.

Sorry for the rant, but it is frustrating to know we could do better and don't.

Ron

[SP01715]

Must have been written by a Liberal if they are touting hybrids. Dealers can't get rid of hybrids now that gas prices have come down. IMO, the new diesel technology is a better car than a hybrid. The new Audi A3 and Volkswagen Jetta with the TDI are getting 45+ mpg average without all the expensive hybrid technology that is constantly changing.

[427 S/O]

SPO, I agree with you about diesels, VW has the 'polo' in europe and it gets 60-70 mpg.
with a three cylinder, and I believe it has turbo?.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by 427 S/O

SPO, I agree with you about diesels, VW has the 'polo' in europe and it gets 60-70 mpg.
with a three cylinder, and I believe it has turbo?.

Yep, europe has a lot of options when it comes to diesel vehicles. There is talk about more cars being available in the U.S. with diesels, hopefully it's true. My next car is either the Audi or VW.

[Speedysnake]

Doesn't anyone remember the "Unsafe At Any Speed" Corvair?

The trunk made a great beer cooler!

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Remember the Pinto's catching fire? The shield that prevented the fires was supposedly a 5 cent part. The management at Ford at the time chose to save 5 cents and pay the insurance claims.

The Pinto that got this issue started was stooped dead on a freeway,had no gas tank cap,but a rag instead and was hit in excess of 50 mph.ANY rear tanked vehicle would have burned.

27 people dies in "Pinto fires".There were over 2 million Pintos built.This averages out to be in line with most other models.

Stop believing the media hype.


[quote=Wayne Maybury;
By today's standards, the quality of cars built in the 60's or 70's was very poor not only for the Big 3 but for all of the Japanese cars and many of the Europeans cars as well. Toyota's quality recently started to drop off as their market share got close to GM's.
Wayne[/QUOTE]

But by the mid-70's Japanese quality had overtaken Detroits.The big three had pissed off too many people.My Dad was one.He switched to Datsun and never looked back.

Originally Posted by Speedysnake

Doesn't anyone remember the "Unsafe At Any Speed" Corvair?The trunk made a great beer cooler!

Don't believe a word Nader says.If you knew how to drive a rear-engined car,there was nothing wrong with the Corvair.And BTW-it was the last innovative thing GM did.

[Jamo]

Euro-diesels are way beyond our diesel-think. A couple of years ago, we rented a turbo-diesel Land Rover Discovery and drove all over Wales and mid-England for a week. Absolutely perfectly mated to the task at hand...high speeds on the main highways, and great handling/torque in the Welsh mountains. As best as we could figure, and despite being fully loaded (four people and suitcases) with a heavy right foot, it was returning mid-20s day in and day out. No black smoke and no smell. We have nothing like that in our small to mid-sized SUVs or crossovers.

[Ron61]

And there are the Audi diesels running in the Le-Mans series. No smoke, not much noise, and the run darn fast. Also get better mileage according to the announcers than the other cars. I watched the St. Petersburg race last week I think it was and they really did well and I believe one of them won. Why can't we have diesel engines in our cars like they have in Europe?

Ron

[95CobraR]

I don't agree with the guy's list at all.

The Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer, and the Chevrolet Cavalier were highly profitable cars for Ford and GM. To state that these cars "sank" Detroit is just incorrect in any valid reasoning process.

The Hummer didn't sell in enough numbers to budge Detroit.

I have always read that the Toyota Prius was an unprofitable vehicle for TM. TM makes its money on the Lexus (and large production Toyota's) and can confuse some internet "writers" into saying a low production hybrid "sank" Detroit.

Besides—what's a sebring, anyway?

Sebring is a town near an Air Force landing strip where WW2 bomber pilots were trained for the eventual victory over the Axis forces. The USAF sold the B52 bomber air strips to the City of Sebring who decided that it would be a good idea to build a road race course for sporty car guys.

The race track opened in 1950, and the 12 Hour race has been a special race since 1952. The city still owns the land but has a long term lease to the Panoz organization which now promotes the race.

Who is Rick Newman?

[Ronbo]

That list is BS, a lot of cars on it were quite profitable.

Ford Tempo converted many to Celicas and Camerys (missed this gem).

Never mentioned those Suzuki/GM pieces of junk (another diamond in the rough).

The first Ford Ranger (Isuzu Pup) (but, but, it's Japanese! It's got to be good)

Chrysler's Mitsubishi-built turds like the Talon...

I've owned several Chevy Astro vans - best darn fleet vehicle ever made, replaced by yet another wrong wheel drive, under-powered mini-van that doesn't sell.

Pinto's and Vega's - no where near as bad as the Datsuns and tin-can Toyotas from that era.

Subaru - (can you say frame that bows under the weight of a four-banger)

Seems to me the crappiest cars were usually, brace yourselves, THE CHEAPEST!!!

LTD's were good, T-birds, Caddys (I agree not the Cimmeron), Lincolns, Malibu's, Bonnevilles, Mustangs, 88's, 98's, LaSabers...

My general experiance getting into a Camery or Civic is similar to the above cheap, crappy cars...

[Cobrabill]

[quote=Ronbo;Pinto's and Vega's - no where near as bad as the Datsuns and tin-can Toyotas from that era....[/QUOTE]

That is catagorically false.All of them rusted quick.So that point is a wash.As far as drivelines go and build quality,Datsuns were superior to anything coming from Detroit in the 70's.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Euro-diesels are way beyond our diesel-think. A couple of years ago, we rented a turbo-diesel Land Rover Discovery and drove all over Wales and mid-England for a week. Absolutely perfectly mated to the task at hand...high speeds on the main highways, and great handling/torque in the Welsh mountains. As best as we could figure, and despite being fully loaded (four people and suitcases) with a heavy right foot, it was returning mid-20s day in and day out. No black smoke and no smell. We have nothing like that in our small to mid-sized SUVs or crossovers.

Yep, more diesel options would be great. Audi is coming out with a diesel version of their SUV in 2010, should be a good vehicle.

[Joe Wicked]

I don't remember where, but I remember seeing something about the grade of diesel in the US being a problem with the euro diesel engines too. Something about they refine it more making it a cleaner burning diesel, but also more expensive. The trucking industry in the US is against anything that will raise the price of the diesel and have successfully blocked the very few attempts to improve the diesel. They were saying that is a big part of the smell and smoke.

I say if they want the crappier diesel that is harder on engines, let them have it. Have an auto grade and a truck grade diesel.

[Jamo]

Ron...that was the 12 Hours of Sebring, and the second generation of the Audi diesel race vehicle (R15), which won in its debut. The R10 diesel has been dominate for the past several years.

Joe...me thinks you're right, but I don't know if anything's changed.

[Ron61]

Jamo,

Thanks for the correction. I watched both of those races on TV and just got mixed up which one they won. I thought they did very well in both races and was impressed with their speed and torque. And from what a couple of people told me that went to the Sebring race, they don't have hardly any smell when in the pits. So why can't we have regular passenger cars with that kind of diesel engine as it seems to burn very clean?

Ron

[Jamo]

Audi's don't run in the Rolex Series.

Gasholes rented a box at Sebring when the R10 (the first Audi diesel after the gas R8 dominated for nearly a decade) ran away from everything...it was eerily quiet when it went by, no smoke and never broke. Peugeot [FTF] is not far behind.