Obama Speaks, Pelosi Winces

[SPF2245]

Cobra Bill, I read the bill (careful about calling people incapable, you might find many ARE capable and willing to call this plan expensive to the majority of the US)...it is what many here have been saying for a long time...a sham. My insurance costs WILL go up, I will not see an improvement in my coverage (my employer has already said they will stop paying the cost of insurance and opt for the 8% tax to the Gov't, by reading the bill, I'm now liable for the differance for my same "gold plate coverage") and to add insult to injury...even my deductables go up 100%! Yeah buddy, Joe Wilson may have been out of line, but he was only speaking the truth.

[cobra bill]

Yes just as Bush lied us into a war and insured the demise of over 4,000 of our fellow citizens, your right! trying to give people healthcare and a little fairness with the insurance companies, is the same MY BAD!

[bomelia]

Our constitution does not provide for this.

Forcing people to buy it will fail on constitutional grounds.

Fairness? For whom? You?

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by SPF2245

Cobra Bill, I read the bill (careful about calling people incapable, you might find many ARE capable and willing to call a lie, a lie)...it is what many here have been saying for a long time...a lie. My insurance costs WILL go up, I will not see an improvement in my coverage (my employer has already said they will stop paying the cost of insurance and opt for the 8% tax to the Gov't) and to add insult to injury...even my deductables go up 100%! Yeah buddy, Joe Wilson may have been out of line, but he was only speaking the truth.

I find that hard to believe, especially when it's not in the bill. As for your insurance, it has no doubt gone up by at least 30% over the last 3 years, and you really expect it to stop? even if we did as you all seem to think we should, and that is nothing at all, do you really think that would change?
they got you by the balls and they know it! and you are dumb enough to even go to bat for them, they must be laughing all the way to the bank!

[bomelia]

Health Care Reform = Tort Reform + Cross Border Insurance Competition - Fraud - Illegal Aliens

Got who by the balls? You?

[cobra bill]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Our constitution does not provide for this.

Forcing people to buy it will fail on constitutional grounds.

Fairness? For whom? You?

You are wrong! it's we the people for the people and by the people in order to form a more perfect union. this means it's a work in progress and if the people feel it's now something they want, then it is Constitutional.

[bomelia]

Here is a simple question.

How will forcing insurance companies to take folks with pre-existing conditions NOT cause rates to go up???

Mike

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by cobra bill

You are wrong! it's we the people for the people and by the people in order to form a more perfect union. this means it's a work in progress and if the people feel it's now something they want, then it is Constitutional.

No, it is a static document. When treating it as a dynamic document, it has no meaning. When folks figure out how to vote themselves a government pay raise, its game over. And I do not want it to be game over. So I will fight against people like you.

[SPF2245]

CobraBill, I'm not saying not to introduce reforms for malpractice, expand medicare for the few uninsured, but what I'm getting at is read the bill again, it's under all the feel good about max out of pocket ($10K), employee costs (under a points system...recall that nonsense???) for coverage for exsisting insurance when employer elects for 8% tax plan, do I really need to keep going? This plan is a sham, it can't be done under the budget claims of this President or anyother for that matter and it doesn't expand my options, but limit them. And no, my insurance has not gone up 30%...thanks for guessing.

[SPF2245]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Here is a simple question.

How will forcing insurance companies to take folks with pre-existing conditions NOT cause rates to go up???

Mike

You can't, it doesn't add up. This plan can work for the US, but at a cost that will cripple a nation. But hey, I'm just a person incapable of understanding how everyone can be covered under a plan at no increase to me, however, if I read the bill...it clearly tells me I will pay more! God I love people who can defend lies.

[fastd]

So, what to do about politicians that we can't stand:

1. Call your Congressman and tell them that unless you see them fighting (in print, on TV) against this health care reform movement, such as it is, you will not vote for them.
2. Vote against every single incumbent every single chance you get.
3. Do not be seduced by smooth talking candidates; vote for the the regular guy who had a regular job, who is raising/raised a family; the guy who went to state college, not Harvard; also, if you can, avoid voting for lawyers over any other previous occupation (except community organizing - is that an occupation?)

[bomelia]

Well actually, I was hoping Cobra Bill would answer that question. Apparently he is busy locating a New Math book that will answer it his way. Or, "if we the people want it, then so shall the math be changed to support it"

Lunacy.

Mike

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by fastd

So, what to do about politicians that we can't stand:

1. Call your Congressman and tell them that unless you see them fighting (in print, on TV) against this health care reform movement, such as it is, you will not vote for them.
2. Vote against every single incumbent every single chance you get.
3. Do not be seduced by smooth talking candidates; vote for the the regular guy who had a regular job, who is raising/raised a family; the guy who went to state college, not Harvard; also, if you can, avoid voting for lawyers over any other previous occupation (except community organizing - is that an occupation?)

I just emailed my congressman (Parker Griffith) and told him I wished our district had someone as courageous as Joe Wilson representing us.

[fastd]

Bomelia,

Nice!

[Dan40]

Insure 47 million uninsured, costs go up.
Force pre-existing conditions coverage, costs go up.
Eliminate benefit caps, costs go up.
That means cost go up OVER AND ABOVE whatever amount they would 'normally' go up.
Obullcrapa said the 'public option' was only for the uninsured. And that they guestimated that ONLY 5% would choose the public option. 5% of 330 million is 16,500,000. What are the rest of the supposed 47 million going to do?
Fuzzy math. [AKA LIES!!!!!]
He said the plan would only cost 900 billion [lie], he said 500 billion could be found in Medicare and Medicaid fraud and waste [lie] It might be there but no one has been able to find it in over 30 years of looking. And if the 500 billion is true, wouldn't stopping that 'fraud and waste' reduce health care costs by half a TRILLION dollars RIGHT NOW? Would that not be the logical first step? No legislation needed, the laws have long been on the books, complete, 100% bi-partisan agreement no new Gov't. Bureaucracy needed. Pure plus.

[SPF2245]

SEC. 313. EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COV15
ERAGE.
16 (a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accord
17ance with this section with respect to an employee if such
18 contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of
19 the average wages paid by the employer
It goes on about the remaining balance is to be covered by employee based on a point/ratio program based off your income. Make more the 100K, you get no credits (meaning you are liable for the difference, for me it was ~$7,200. That is $600 month, I currently pay $120 a month...I'd say I'm paying MORE, but my liberal math skills have been known to lie!)

Next,
Page 28 deals with cost sharing, I'm at the $10K mark per this bill...whoo-hoo, my max out of pocket was at $1K. I could be wrong, but I believe the bill is more or less a 70/30 plan on coverage (I'm a 80/20 currently). So, in the end...I might be able to keep my current insurance, but it will cost me more. If not, I'm forced to either pay more for some other plan to keep my current coverage or accept less and live with it.

And with that, I'm out...thanks for the fun.

[cobra de capell]

Joe couldn’t help himself. It just sort of came out as a reflex, sort of like an “amen!” during the sermon at church...

Wilson spoke the ONLY 2 HONEST WORDS spoken last night.

[Ronbo]

Well I listened to it, back-pedaling and more lies.

First time I've ever heard "boos" like that, ever.

Instead of "taxing the millionairs" it will now be self funded. (lie)

The persons who are supposidly in need of this "public offering" will be exempt. (so this will change what?) Small businesses (you know, the ones that currently don't offer ins.) will also be exempt. (again, so this changes what?)

Require pre-existing conditions? Well, I don't know about every state but in Florida employer-supplied insurance already has to have this, as well as since it's a "group" plan you can't be dropped. COBRA is rarely ever accepted by employees cause they get a look at how much this costs the employer and of course don't pay it (unless they have something pre-existing).

Not to mention when this "public offering" lights off every high-risk, pre-existing person in this country will jump on it. (Can you say in the red?)

Never heard of an "optional" government plan, maybe they could do this with Medicare and Social Security? (like that'll happen)

This fellow is either a bold face lier (he knows this can't work), or he reallly belives this B.S.

BTW what was those papers the Republicans kept waiving around during the speech???

[Don]

Tort Reform, mentioned by some one , do not recall who, on the radio this morning, in Washington DC there are more lawyers than doctors

[Ronbo]

Oh, and how the Republicans should have handled it?

Everyone bring in a bunch of fake noses, first lie put the big one on, next lie put on the next bigger one, and so on. (the press would have ate this up)

Instead they sat there looking like a bunch of pissed off grumps and acting like idiots. (at least they didn't fold their arms)

Oh well, girdlocked government is at least better that the "forward momentum" we've been getting...