Speaking of Illegals........

[Jamo]

Only to keep dodo birds warm.

[bomelia]

This whole illegal alien thing is all about voters. Who gets them. Who does not. Both parties want them. 12 million folks! That could go a long way to insuring the next election. And mostly, this will go for democrats.

If I were President, I would declare a national emergency and have the fence finally built. I'd electrify it too. Three fences with concertina wire at the top and in between. I 'd also bury the fence 10 feet underground. Land mines in between too. And down deep too! Try and dig through that! I would also plant those jumping cacti in the middle. Millions of them. Then, I would round up all the illegals I could and send them back.

When the next terrorist action takes place, what I am saying will sound mild compared to the public outcry.

[Excaliber]

I think it's more about a National problem and less about "votes" myself. It's an issue the USA has been trying to get a handle on for a long time. Were not alone in that regard. European countries are having the same issues. An article I read today was talking about France and their security. Body heat sensors, motion detectors, concertina wire, etc. Sounds like they have reduced the number of illegals gaining entry substantially, but it's a never ending project.

Right now the numbers HERE are SO huge it's way complicated on what to do. Shipping them all home is simply not practical at this point. The Europeans say a big problem for them is the varying laws from one country to the next, they need to get some kind of agreement on how ALL of them can proceed. I see a similiar problem here, States take action, Fed's tie their hands. Justified in some cases, confusing in others. WE need to come to an agreement between ALL the States and the Feds on how to proceed, not unlike the European nations face!

[bomelia]

Sure its simple. You get lots of box cars, load them up and ship them off.

What is not simple is the political will. Each one of those illegal folks are a vote for a democrat. Each one is a person who will do work at lower wages than an American. And the reason the American won't do it is because the illegals push the wages down.

Yeah, lots of folks want to sound egalitarian about this and every day the problem grows worse. I don't really want to ship them home, but I would love to give them a darn good reason to stop coming here.

Go ahead and sneak into Mexico and see what happens to you. Hey, for that matter, do it legally. Watch how they treat you and your money.

Mike

[Excaliber]

Jamo post about the Katrina folks was a real eye opener for me.

Crop growers offered them housing, transportation and decent wage for seasonal work. Too folks in desperate need. 27 responded. That speaks volumes about the theory Americans will do it. It also speaks volumes about Government support. It could be analyzed multiple ways and is worthy of additional study on the issue. No matter how you shake it, it's a pretty pathetic commentary on American values and ethics, something WAY wrong with that Katrina picture.

[Roscoe]

I remember there used to be a Migrant Worker Program where workers would come to the farms from the US and foreign countries and housed at the farm. After the season they would go home or to another area that was harvesting. But, like the Canadian Geese in NJ, they stayed.

Roscoe

[Jamo]

Roscoe...that was the bracero program, which ended in the 60s, and which resulted in increased illegal entries. Essentially, they got paid half of their wages, and the other half was deposited in Mexican banks, which they could draw from only when they returned to Mexico. Worked great for several decades. Some old braceros who became citizens (went through the normal channels like anyone else) sued the Mexican banks recently for never giving them their money.

The bracero program was the forerunner to the current versions of guest worker programs, which are used in various parts of the US. For example, Goergia growers bring in folks from Jamaca to harvest tree fruit under such programs. Western Ag interests want similar programs so that they won't have to rely on illegals...that's called AgJobs, and it is still fought over as part of the overall immigration debate even though it has nothing to do with the immigration laws or amnesty themselves.

As it proved in the decades before it was stopped in the 60s, the bracero-type guest worker programs make illegal entry unnecessary and insure that folks don't stay here after the work is completed.

[Scott S]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Sure its simple. You get lots of box cars, load them up and ship them off.
Mike

What do you think would happen to our economy and housing values if we had another 1.2 million or so empty homes and apartments? Shipping them off is not such a easy fix.

Scott

[Sharroll Celby]

Agreed, not an easy fix. But let's give it a try. Housing prices would fall to a more realistic level. More people could theoretically have the money to buy a house. And if people spend less on their housing, maybe they would spend more to help the economy.

[Dan40]

We can close our borders and send the illegals back wherever they came from, and we can cut our legal immigrants to a 'reasonable level'. It will NOT be easy to do any of these things. But we can do them.

OR

In a few years we can gripe about 25 million illegals instead of 12 million. Then in a few more years we can gripe about 60 million illegals.

[Excaliber]

Boy you got that right Dan! We need to do SOMETHING, SOON!

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Scott S

What do you think would happen to our economy and housing values if we had another 1.2 million or so empty homes and apartments? Shipping them off is not such a easy fix.

Scott

There would be a HUGE shock to our economy if we did such a thing. And we won't. Most of these folks do jobs at lower wages than Americans will. Without them, prices would increase, etc etc. This is a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Scott, I do not seriously advocate such a thing. As it stands, the problem will grow and grow. At some point, we either capitulate or take our medicine. Capitulation, however, will insure liberal politics for decades to come.

You know me, just stirring the pot.

Mike

[bomelia]

Lets see, if you hire illegals for your business, then you are breaking the law to make money. You should go to jail. If you can't compete by not hiringing illegals, then you are part of the problem and you should get out of that business. The ONLY reason people come here illegaly is to make a better wage. That wage will be less than what would be paid to an American, but better than what the illegal could make in their own country. Because that wage is less for them, few Amercans will want to do it. Its called wage depression.

If there are 12,000,000 illegals here, and they left, that in my estimate would leave about 1000,000 housing units empty (based on average occupancy we see here in Huntsville). That should, under legal circumstance leave about 3 million housing units empty, so illegals are pressing demand down and lowering rent/house values. Of course, rent is prolly not reduced much since shady landlords who rent to illegals prolly increase their rent above market rates.

Mike

[Excaliber]

Interesting to note that a lot of illegals have gone home since the economy took a bad turn.

As Jay Leno put it: A recent poll in L.A. asked if people had noticed the number of illegals falling in town. 80% answered, "Si"...

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by bomelia

Lets see, if you hire illegals for your business, then you are breaking the law to make money. You should go to jail. If you can't compete by not hiringing illegals, then you are part of the problem and you should get out of that business. The ONLY reason people come here illegaly is to make a better wage. That wage will be less than what would be paid to an American, but better than what the illegal could make in their own country. Because that wage is less for them, few Amercans will want to do it. Its called wage depression.

If there are 12,000,000 illegals here, and they left, that in my estimate would leave about 1000,000 housing units empty (based on average occupancy we see here in Huntsville). That should, under legal circumstance leave about 3 million housing units empty, so illegals are pressing demand down and lowering rent/house values. Of course, rent is prolly not reduced much since shady landlords who rent to illegals prolly increase their rent above market rates.

Mike

Remind me to spend an hour here some night educating your ass on the fine little details of current immigration law in these here United States.