Speaking of Illegals........

[Roscoe]

Obama: Legalize illegals to get them health care

President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage.

He also staked out a position that anyone in the country legally should be covered - a major break with the 1996 welfare reform bill, which limited most federal public assistance programs only to citizens and longtime immigrants.

"Even though I do not believe we can extend coverage to those who are here illegally, I also don't simply believe we can simply ignore the fact that our immigration system is broken," Mr. Obama said Wednesday evening in a speech to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute. "That's why I strongly support making sure folks who are here legally have access to affordable, quality health insurance under this plan, just like everybody else.

Mr. Obama added, "If anything, this debate underscores the necessity of passing comprehensive immigration reform and resolving the issue of 12 million undocumented people living and working in this country once and for all."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...cube_position1

[bomelia]

He is already hinting at his next major policy debacle (legalize illegals). Obama just reneged on our friends in Easter Europe. So we know now for sure how he feels about foreign policy. My guess is he will be withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan soon.

[Jamo]

He does have a way with words, doesn't he.

[4pipes]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Excaliber]

I think Obama's concerns about addressing the illegals are right on target. All though I'm not sure about the health care part of it, but I won't dismiss it out of hand until I know more about plan.

Roscoe your thread/post would suggest that there should be NO illegals, EVER, allowed legal status under ANY conditions. I think your concern is that the threshold to obtain legal status will be to low? A legitimate concern I share.

Illegals, foreigners, (not just Mexicans as one might assume) should be allowed to have their case heard in court. Now lets see what can be done to give them an expidited hearing, before the hangin'. Depending on that outcome they may be allowed to apply for US Citizenship, within the proper legal frame work. Like those foreigners serving in the Armed Forces, for instance.

BUT, as Obama says, lets get on with dealing with the illegal's issue once and for all. It's been shrouded in mystery and not been dealt with properly for decades, by both parties. Time for "change", you might say...

[computerworks]

It's good to see Roscoe post a positive news item like that.

[purespeed]

First understand the USA's immigration system is NOT broken....our borders and security systems ARE broken.

Obama's disdain for the American public that opposes his plans can best be illustrated by his own mouth. Funny that he refers to Americans as "Demagogues" when the definition of a Demagogue is: a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power.

In his own words:

http://www.cnsnews.com/cnsnewstv/v/GdnznzkUpr

[Excaliber]

Well now there's a definition that could fit right or left. An interesting and I think accurate use of the word in this case.

Amnesty? I don't know, maybe it's one way to start to get a handle on things. Fairly common to use that tactic by many different groups, Federal, State, who ever. Like the Amnesty for registering your replica in California that is about to expire. Some folks are so messed up they can't take advantage of it all. Or risk flat out loosing the right to ever register their car in California again. Same thing for illegals, some just aren't going to be able to take advantage of amnesty, period. At least it should reduce the numbers, give us a shot at cleaning up the many million's of illegals out there by getting them to come out of hiding. Then follow that up with some tough immigration law enforcement when amnesty is over!

[map]

Do laws mean anything today?
08 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325:

Deport them all! Put the wall up, Pull the troops out of Afghanistan put them on the border and mine it.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

, give us a shot at cleaning up the many million's of illegals out there by getting them to come out of hiding. Then follow that up with some tough immigration law enforcement when amnesty is over!

Yeah,let's do it again.It worked so well last time.

[purespeed]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well now there's a definition that could fit right or left. An interesting and I think accurate use of the word in this case.

Amnesty? I don't know, maybe it's one way to start to get a handle on things. Fairly common to use that tactic by many different groups, Federal, State, who ever. Like the Amnesty for registering your replica in California that is about to expire. Some folks are so messed up they can't take advantage of it all. Or risk flat out loosing the right to ever register their car in California again. Same thing for illegals, some just aren't going to be able to take advantage of amnesty, period. At least it should reduce the numbers, give us a shot at cleaning up the many million's of illegals out there by getting them to come out of hiding. Then follow that up with some tough immigration law enforcement when amnesty is over!

The word "Demagogue" actually is a term referring to the leader not the people in the cheap seats. I was just getting used to being called a "domestic terrorist", "tea bagging nutter", and a "racist" for daring to oppose Obama.

I see the attacks of Obama and his cronies on a large portion of Americans. I think the past attempt of reporting "fishy" emails is a new low.

As for as laws go, we have plenty of laws. Granting amnesty for illegal aliens proves that they were right to ignore the laws of the US. And that would tell everyone to "bum rush" the border because the US will always cave in and give amnesty.

There is no need to give amnesty other than to insure more leftist voters for the Democrats.

[Excaliber]

The key here is enforcement of either existing or future law, without it, were spinning our wheels. I believe existing law allows for a hearing prior to deportation, as it should. Without the power to arrest, a hearing will never happen though. The STATES need to be more aggressive with this and it seems to me the Fed's to often tie their hands. I'd like to see them back off in that regard, if THEY can't figure out how to get it done. It's a good question though, WHY haven't the powers that be, for the last couple of decades, figured out how to apply the law in a more meaningful way. I just don't see this as an Obama, or even a Bush decade issue, it's bigger than that. The system is "broke".

Demagogue, VERY fitting, I like that word, might start using it myself. An accurate description of those who would lead their fellow citizens in any number of things. From Community organizing to Astroturf in your face organizing.

Amnesty doesn't prove anybody was right or wrong, it's just another tool to gather up those that need a closer look. There is a place for it, I'm not sure it's warranted in this case, but I wouldn't throw out the idea.

[purespeed]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The key here is enforcement of either existing or future law, without it, were spinning our wheels. I believe existing law allows for a hearing prior to deportation, as it should. Without the power to arrest, a hearing will never happen though. The STATES need to be more aggressive with this and it seems to me the Fed's to often tie their hands. I'd like to see them back off in that regard, if THEY can't figure out how to get it done. It's a good question though, WHY haven't the powers that be, for the last couple of decades, figured out how to apply the law in a more meaningful way. I just don't see this as an Obama, or even a Bush decade issue, it's bigger than that. The system is "broke".

Demagogue, VERY fitting, I like that word, might start using it myself. An accurate description of those who would lead their fellow citizens in any number of things. From Community organizing to Astroturf in your face organizing.

Amnesty doesn't prove anybody was right or wrong, it's just another tool to gather up those that need a closer look. There is a place for it, I'm not sure it's warranted in this case, but I wouldn't throw out the idea.

Our government has proven over and over and over that they will not enforce the immigration laws no matter who in office - Democrat or Republican.

I'll say it another way...no way, no how is our federal government going to enforce immigration laws.

If we give amnesty...then we really get tough on enforcement...bwahahahaha. I'm sorry I laughed myself off my chair. I'm now typing on my knees to avoid another fall.

Obama WILL grant amnesty in order to forever gain a leftist majority in this country. Amnesty will the signal for more aliens to "bum rush" the borders. He is just waiting for the right chance.

In the meantime, the attacks on a large portion of honest tax paying Americans will grow as Obama's desire for power grows.

[Roscoe]

If we give them amnesty they will have to get a real job and pay taxes. Then who will do the jobs Americans will not do? They certainly commit the crimes most Americans won't commit?

Roscoe

[purespeed]

First, assuming an illegal alien will begin to pay taxes once citizenship is granted won't happen.

Most illegal aliens will not fall into an income category to pay income taxes. Citizenship will remove any doubt or any barriers about a person's being able to receive government assistance.

One of the big issues on the Texas border is the amount of illegals that live in Mexico, yet bus their kids across the border to the Texas schools for free education. It is a Texas law that students are required to live in the school district that they attend.

The laws are in place, but there is little federal interest in enforcement. The feds allow bus loads of school age children to cross the border in the morning and return in the afternoon. They know what is going on.

The fence is just a show piece. I live near I35 in central Texas and I see bunches of new, big, diesel buses delivering thousands of illegals into the US every day. I'm sure they have the needed paperwork to enter the US...they just don't plan to return...they know the INS can't find them.

The buses make a beeline to Dallas, and from there they travel east, west, or continue north. With duel drivers and an onboard john, they can be most anywhere in the US in one day.

Again, the feds at the border see this everyday and they know how many enter and how few return.

Nevada has an unemployment of 13.2%. It is estimated that their work force is make up of 12.2% illegal aliens. There's the recession...the carrying of illegal aliens.

In central Texas, our local paper states that our unemployment has a high of 7.3% in the month of August. Over the last year 2800 jobs were lost. Education and health workers had a gain of 600 while government workers had a gain of 500 jobs.

I'll quote the front page:

As a result, local personnel companies say they’re seeing a lot of desperate people.

“They’ll take anything,” said Danny Lincavage, operations manager at All Staff Personnel Services. “People with degrees in finance are doing general labor, landscaping and catering. Some temps were making $10 to $15 an hour, but now they’re making the minimum wage.”

They make those wages if they can find work at all.

“We’ve had people in here multiple times that we haven’t been able to place, and they tell us the story is the same at other agencies,” Lincavage said. “Jobs are scarce.”

Amnesty for illegals at 1.2 million people has helped to bring 12 million for this go around. The amnesty that Obama WILL grant will cause (has already started) a total "bum rush" over the border.

[Excaliber]

We've got to secure the border before we even consider amnesty. While it sounds good to "lets ship them all back" that is just not practical. One, they will come right back. Two the sheer numbers involved would require police action manpower on a massive scale, we simply don't have the resources to do it. Those illegal detained at the border are not entitled to a hearing, I support that. Those detained inside the US are entitled to a hearing, but it takes a LONG time for that to happen. Meanwhile, we are feeding and careing for them ( $$ ). We need to expidite the hearing process, or determine a better method of WHO is even entitled to a hearing in the first place.

Regardless of a hearing, or a bus back across the border, they'll be back. Step one, tighten the border. That means Texas, for example, has got to STOP looking the other way. The border States, in particular, need to be more pro-active with less Federal oversight on how they handle the problem.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Step one, tighten the border. That means Texas, for example, has got to STOP looking the other way. The border States, in particular, need to be more pro-active with less Federal oversight on how they handle the problem.

Ernie,
You really ought to look into things a lot better before you go an stick your head up your ass and start spouting off.

[Excaliber]

I support more local State control, pretty simple.

Alien Fred, are you saying Purespeed's reference to Texas is inaccurate? Then tell HIM to stick his head up his a$$. Or make a reasonable comment about why that is NOT the case.

[purespeed]

No doubt Texas has its shortcomings in dealing with illegal aliens, but Texas is not in charge of the border. The feds are in totally control of all USA borders.

This is not a Republican/Democrat issue. GWB was our governor and then our President. He didn't do anything to help either. The feds as a whole just don't care...period.

The "HOPE" the illegals have is the impending "CHANGE" that will occur when "amnesty" is granted. If our federal government, Republicans and Democrats, took the stand that amnesty will never be granted to an illegal, then the inrush of illegals might slow (don't worry about the feds doing anything).

The "bum rush" is on and the federal government's attitude effects the amount of illegals entering the country.

Amnesty was the wrong thing to do at 1.2 million and it will be the wrong thing to do at 12 million.

Our own courts have ruled that an illegal must be educated with taxpayers' money if he is in the state.

As for as state colleges go, any legal citizen of another state will pay through the nose to go to our state colleges. But an illegal alien that has taken up illegal residence in Texas only pays the low state rate.

There is not going to be a good answer for this. The prime mover for this is the amount of leftist voters that the Democrats would garner by granting amnesty.

We are headed for a leftist South American style of government and there's not anything we can do.

When I said the feds don't care, that's not completely true...Obama does care and he fully plans to change the USA forever. It WILL happen.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by 392cobra

Ernie,
You really ought to look into things a lot better before you go an stick your head up your ass and start spouting off.

That just bought you a day.