New owner of Classic Roadsters

[harold]

glad to hear the good news Don, I wish you and your partners all the best. The car is doing great, 1000 miles on it now, no major problems. Been raining so much here, thinking about making some pontoons and putting a propeller out the back. Well once again good luck, Harold

[dscott]

Harold, thanks, glad to hear the car is doing well. You may have something with the pontoon idea. Remember the Amphicar!
Don

[milner351]

Did you hear of the cuban's coming over in a '51 chevy pick up with a prop on the driveshaft and 55gal drums welded to the side?
They actually made it close enough for the US Coastguard to go out and get them and take them back home?!

[nolimits]

Go away for a few days and miss some great chats...
Some much Goodness..so little time.
Hey guys!!! Great to read all the positive backing.
St Hauk Mn. and London Oh. is buzzing!
Theres also a 6100sq ft addition in the mix of things to do here. Will house the showroom, service area, build finish area, parts dept, machine shop, and 2nd paint booth. Almost decided on Kentucky Truss building, but the local Mennanites are tough to pass up for the cost up. John, drainage,underground and paint booth regs. need your attention now. Going with filtered halide lights in our shop area for paint/body inspection. The showroom and parts dept. will get fluoro. We will do sch80, bagged 4in insulation, PPE plastic white wall panels, clear vinyl curtian to separate machine shop, parts dept loft over showroom, . Enough spec for now...Target Construction in Sept. Addition will be behind, to the east of the current facility, 4 feet off connected by a tunnel to the front building and the paint booth building connecting to the current rear building. The current buildings will be the chassis shop and body shop.

Classic Roadsters II is on its way. Gotta give us a little time to clean up the past, current projects, and lots of new business stuff.
Back to work....
Jay

[dscott]

Jay, St Hauk, where the hell is that. At least you gave me a laugh! Where is your place, in Sowcow or Loudcow, that must be by Columbo which isn't too far from Dating Ohio. Are you originally from somewheres further south of Loudow. Maybe I kin hep you wif yer spelin and geogrify next time.
Don

[petek]

Loud-cow? Sow-cow? Heck, I though our small town names were odd ... I live just seven miles from PECULIAR, Missouri.

(But really, does Puckerbrush, NE really exist?)

[milner351]

Jay
we need to talk, long time since I followed you to Ed's shop the first time trying to keep pace with you on the valkerie and I in the SHO. That feels like a decade ago! Lots has changed since then.
As far as equipment, Gregs equipment sales in Indy is pretty tough to beat, he's giving me a screaming deal on a 10k lb 2 post clear floor lift with 13 ft of lift clearance, just in case I decide to work on a conversion van or RV in my shop?!
It clears the bottom of my trusses, so I'm happy.
Anyway, I'll be the proud owner of some sweet equipment come the middle of August. Have to beat up the insulation guy a little more, and you'll have to tell me about the plastic panels for the walls. Now I'm thinking steel interior liner for ~$11/ 3ftx10ft piece is pretty tough to beat, spark and fire proof, already painted white, no labor but screwing it to the wall over the insulation.
Anyway, we could go on for hours.
Let's try to get together next time I'm in town, I'll be in touch.
Rock on.

[Double Venom]

OUCH!

We've been putting in some monster hours lately to besure. I came down from the shop to grab a llittle supper before second shift and saw my partners post! First thing I said to him was, " I wasn't real sure how Don was going to take that "HAUK" comment!"

Jay, said he'd edit it as soon as he got home....not soon enough- AYE!

DV...This is getting better and better!

[Excaliber]

Well, at least I knew what Jay meant. Like I have a clue how to pronounce the names "up there". LOL

I got enough trouble trying to say (let alone spell) Kalanianeole Hwy., you know the one that leads to Kamehemea Hwy.

Ernie

[G.R.]

Though this is a little OT--thought I'd chime in here for those of you building/remodeling steel frame garages--

1. Look into using overhead "radiant heat" rather than forced air/gas unless your electrical consumer costs are extremely high(read outrageous). I installed this type of a system in my Dad's and his partners business shop, a 70x40x20 steel frame building, when I contracted to remodel and upgrade about 15 or so years ago--radiant heat warms "things" people, equipment, water lines, etc. not the ambient air--warmed air rises leaving floor areas cold demanding more heat--though it costs for the initial install In my Dad's case they paid for the system in their savings on gas heating prices in I think 2 1/2 yrs.
I've also installed this type of system in several custom built homes garages--it can be 10deg below zero out side and initially feel cold inside until you've been in the "heat for a few minutes" then you'll be down to shirtsleeves.

2. If you are working w/a electrical contractor make sure you specify you want as much 220/277low cost hi-intensity lighting you can get and picture your shop and mark on your plans where you want outlets, both inside and out side--how many times have you wished you could plug in a drill in your driveway with a 10-20 ft cord rather than have to run out a 50-100ft cord? Run as much 220 as possible and make sure your breaker boxes are oversized to allow for expansion of electrical needs.

3. Consider adding exterior windows--most quality windows on the market today have great heat retention values with the added benefit of allowing "natural light"-- this helps in many ways especially with employees--many do not enjoy working in a "tomb" like building, kind of nice to look outside to see if it is sunny, rainy, or snowing again

Just a few thoughts from a builder.


Congratulations on your new business enterprises!!!


Milner--have a "qualified" roofer "familiar" with metal buildings inspect your FG roof panels for structural integrity and for signs of leakage(your building inspector should have picked up on this if you had it inspected if it is a used building)--a "qualified" roofer will make the necessary repairs correctly and you can still enjoy the benefit of natural lighting--a real bonus

This a a FWIW

[milner351]

AINT LIFE GRAND INDEED

Life sure is grand when you get a bunch of folks together talking shop in cyberspace. As it's been said, you have crystallized my thoughts eloquently. In other words, you read my mind. I have a "free" furnace that I will install for this winter as money is hemorraging to other places right now and there will be no budget for an overhead radiant set up, but that is the long term goal. Can you recommend a brand or source for such heaters.
To qualify, my building (wickes) is not a steel frame, it's a wood frame with wood rafters, but steel siding and roofing. I hope to speak with the local wickes about a "qualified" contractor to replace the fiberglass panels with steel. I hear you completely on the sky lights, but in my case, I will have icynene brand foam insulation sprayed directly onto the underside of the roof, thus allowing me the open rafter areas for things like my 13ft 91/2" high 2 post lift, and a rope hoist to take the cap on and off my pick up, etc..... SO, the sky lights must go, but, I do have a line on some structural glass panels out of an office building that are very thick glass and tinted, I will frame these and use them for windows up high in the walls to let in that all important ambient light.
As far as 220v light fixtures, please name names and sources, this is no longer home depot fare and the "rest of us" don't know where to get such things.
I have underground 200amp service just installed with a new 200amp panel in the house, then a 100amp feed underground to the barn where I will soon install a square D QO 100amp sub panel with as many breakers as I can get. Fortunately the previous owner put in hard conduit with outlets at every post around the building.... I just have to figure out his "rats nest" in the old service panel before I tear it out.
Then on to finding the houses old abandoned septic tank so I can build a bathroom in the barn and not worry about the towship breathing down my neck about it.... any suggestions on doing that? Fortunately again the previous owner built a "pit" in the corner of the building where he drains some floor drains into and where he brought in the water supply from the house, I plan to use this as the place to run the line from the barn to the septic, now if I just had one of those handy little back hoes!
OK
Must run 5:40 am, and I've got to get to work!
Somebodies got to polish that blue oval!

[Double Venom]

GR,
Wouldn't want to spend a week or two in beautiful downtown London, Ohio would you? Then at least another week in Pentwater, Michigan?

Dave, I put in gas radiant heaters years ago in the "old" shop. Awesome, simply awesome. I know, without fail that they literally paid for themselves by the second heating season. Other than having to clean out a few small itty-bitty cobwebs in the dashpots once in a while and replacing one ignitor, (which I broke going after one of those "itty-biddy" spiders) they have been absolutely trouble free.

"VANTAGE" heaters are what we picked, and the last time, because of a "sale" we bought "Dayton" from Graingers. Hang them at least 13 inches from the ceiling, and make damned sure you don't put your lift directly under one of the tubes and raise a car up within four or five feet of it!

What else is nice is that one tube with "U", or 90' bends can be run close to a 100'. Exhaust is extremely simple and it uses a simple dryer flex tube mounted where you want to draw in air. (We have the intakes mounted into our attic!)

As far as the lighting goes, fellow you need to get a "Grainger" catalog! I'll try and look up some part numbers for the lights today. They will have all the lights AND the radiant heaters you want and they will deliver to your door!

GR...now the real question! It has been suggested to us, in the floor "hot water" or electric wires/cables for heating one of our new shops. I'm scared to death of maintenance or repair for that system. Have any thoughts on that suggestion?

Our building company also suggested "polcarbonate" skylights.
They guarantee they wont turn yellow, crack or spider web for 10 years. I do like my natural light. Seven small double hung windows and one good sized picture window going in too!

Way off the base here but I'm going with a commercial insulated "roll up" over head door. Talk about shooting a budget! 14Wx16H. But, no tracks/rails to take up any more valuable space!

DV...sometimes OT can be so much fun!

[milner351]

DV
I have also heard and seen and felt the in floor "hot water" systems. I think they are truly the way to go, efficient, healthy, optimal I really think so. I've even heard you can run a tankless hot water heater as your boiler. These systems really make a shop or a home nice, I hope to install one if I can in fact make a deal happen on a lake house I'm looking at - it already has radiant hot water baseboard heat, so in the addition, I can tap into the same boiler for floor heat.

GRAINGER, of course! I'll look into it.
I'll have to locate the radiant over head carefully, and I may not be able to run it at all in the bay where the lift will be.

I may have an insulated roll up door for you, I had to get a lot of 12ft wide 2ft tall panels, and I'll end up with likely another door's worth if you are interested, I will have three 12ftx10ft with any luck, the sliders have to go!

The deal is done with Greg's, I pick up the lift, sand blaster, etc Aug 9, I'm so pumped!
Dreams are coming true!

Great to be back in touch.

[dkjos]

DV,

The in-floor radiant systems are excellent in terms of efficiency, comfort, and flexibility for lift placement, etc. Longevity should be very good if you have a stable floor slab and a good installer. Initial cost is going to be higher than other systems, but the flexibility issue may make it worthwhile to you. Check out the web sites for both Heatlink and Wirsbo.

[gman]

DV, As a Builder All I can say is the radiant heat is the way to go. We just did a huge job with Wirsbo Products. It is a great way to heat. Now for the cautions. It is imparitive that you map the floor and the product is installed properly (at the right depth) in the floor, especially in a commercial application. We made it to the end of the job (tousands of feet of tubing) before somebody drilled into the floor with out checking our maps. With the potential for mounting equiptment such as lifts and other stationary machinery you need to be extra careful.

P.S. loved the fling Gman

[Double Venom]

I will definately check into the suggested web sites. Maybe I should do a little more research before asking, but what the heck is this place for? My concern is actually warming objects, ie; fiberglass body's! I know the heat is a nice heat, but is it actually viable for a shop?

Dave, you'll love those over head heaters, you just have to be sure you don't put something directly under them closer than four or five feet! Talk about a baked paint job! When you check out Graingers site, look for High Bay lighting and Low Bay lighting also.

Now if I could just have the Mrs. make a few more batches of chocolate chip cookies, maybe I'd get all these builders to volunteer to help with this small but modern garage! OK, OK, I'll keep the voluteerism stuff for the Fling! ;D

DV...but they really are good cookies!

[G.R.]

For overhead radiant heat I suggest either Dayton or Vantage(could be Pro Vantage?)--they are sort of the Rolls/Bentleys of their line--pricey but well worth it--they work extremely well

For our custom homes we use Dayton for overhead and for in-floor we use Heatlink--
When using any in-floor system, preparation, let me restate that Proper preparation, of the base, depth and mapping of tubing and components, care in concrete slab placement and finish are all critical--you must have a firm stable base for your slab--if prepping for an in-floor system be sure and work with the arch/designer/contractor make sure location of all desired floor mounted equipment is throughly noted and that everyone involved absolutely knows where it is/is not safe to drill mounting bolts etc. (been there done that--not real high on the fun factor)

On a smaller scale we've used in floor electrical wire grid bedded in setting compound under bath, dining and kitchen, patios covered and uncovered, using tile/marble/slate / hardwood flooring with excellent results--caveat though if one wire is broken on some systems the entire system is shut down--fix- trace down the culprit, tear up the floor, repair, replace floor--knock on wood we've not had that problem though I know of other builders that have.

Go with the Polycarbonate skylights--we use them exclusively--I built/remodeled homes 20 yrs ago using them and as far as I know they are just as good today as when first installed--the Mfg warranttys are just that, like a automobile, no lifetime guarantee
Different parts of the country have their own "local" window Mfg co.s--so what we use here probably isn't available in Ohio--of course you can go with the national known brands like Andersen, Pella, etc--pricey though for "name brand" recognition/quality that can be obtained from a quality local MFg'r at a more realistic competitive price.

If you have any questions during your build feel free to e-mail me and I'll help if I can---

Good luck and have fun on your new project--that is the key ingredient for having a successful build--have fun and try not to stress--

One note if you haven't already you might want to draw up a "performance" bond for all contractors and subs involved, including shop equiptment being made and delivered etc.--a good way for you to keep control and avoid cost overruns, etc due to contractor error or neglect.

[Double Venom]

Gary,
Thanks so much for the time you have spent on this. I know John and I, along with many, many more readers are pouring over every word!

Maybe John is stressed but I'm loving it! After all these years of remodeling and making do with what's there, now I get to decide "what's there"!

I do have one little stressfull area though and that's the floor covering. You know, the age old, paint it, stain it, marbelize it or now even racedeck type floor. Now THAT is stressfull A relatively small addition of 2,000 sq. ft., (this will be my personal shop where I hope the really cool customizing will take place .)
can be quite expensive! And, I absolutely do not want to have to fix it constantly.

Here's a basis for the foundation and floor: Footer, support pillars, and floor will be poured at the same time. (Good idea or not?) Trust me on this one, it will be done correctly! Did I ever tell you guys I once was a HUD inspector? . Inboard of the footer will be solid 2" insulation, compacted base etc., with the floor being minimal 4", reinforced concrete. The land is totally "sand" as in beach type sand. Great drainage, but a little worrisome about packing.

As far as the pre-mentioned vapor tests, I plan on having the heaviest vapor barrier laid over the base that I can!

This IS fun.
DV...60lb. snow load area to boot! Probably as high as Don has in St. Hauk!

[G.R.]

DV

The slab pour you outlined is sometimes referrred to as a "mono pour" meaning all concrete for footers, piers(supports for vertical loads and weight bearing equiptment) and the final finish floor slab are all poured in one continuous pour--a very effective way to ensure less slab movement--Caveat BIG IF the reinforceing ie rebar, steel wire mesh are properly installed --this is where you really need a good concrete contractor familiar with commercial installation as this is where this system is usually used--also you need to have the slab IMO about 6" thick, especially over a sand base and have stress grooves in the concrete closer than in a normal slab to help deter/reduce slab cracking--common in concrete garage floors. Don't know of any concrete contractor that will guarantee his slab won't crack

Since you'll be building over a sand base you may want to consult with a soil engineer--only advice I can give is if you have a high water table you may want to think of installing a "french drain" system under the foundation to wick water away -- and always use the best vapor barrier available directly under the slab.

As for a final working finish--Race Deck--pricy but oh so "pro-shop" looking--a good, quality 2-part epoxy finish is equally a solution and properly applied will withstand years of abuse--and less expensive--this would have to be your choice of what you want your shop floor to appear in final form.

Good luck--and have fun--keep the stress level under control--something a lot of people entering a building project lose sight of
hope this helps

[BLACKJACK]

HEY, GUYS - - -

I'VE BEEN AWAY FOR A WHILE AND JUST SAW THE "OFFICIAL" NEWS RELEASE - EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN HEARING RUMORS FOR A WHILE.

MY SINCERE AND HEARTIEST CONGRATULATIONS TO THE NEW GANG. IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME COMING BUT IT WILL BE GREAT TO SEE A FINE CAR BEING BUILT AGAIN BY A GREAT COMPANY. AND THIS SHOULD REALLY BE A GREAT COMPANY.

VERY BEST WISHES TO "CLASSIC ROADSTERS II" AND THE GREAT FOLKS THAT WILL BE RUNNING IT.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK