Pro vs Con Re: CSX and Superformance/ERA

[Tutosnake]

Gee, back when I first joined this forum, I was led to believe that this was a group of well intentioned, tough skin, sunna of guns that could handle pretty much anything you threw their way... why are we talking about insulting anybody?
Here's what I see.
A lot of people talk about a CSX6000 not being a genuine Shelby, yada, yada... Right in this thread, we see how some of you still criticize the guy who spent more money on a CSX only because of the "lose" relationship to the Shelby name. Further yet, a replica cannot be the best replica unless it is aluminum, for starters. It makes more sense to some to buy another brand and/or build the car themselves, rather than waste the extra money for just a glass bodied CSX number, and a fancy paper MSO automatically signed by a dead guy... besides, these other brands of replicas are even better quality than the cSX product, and that is a no brainer. Wow, do yo think a CSX4000/6000/7000/9000 owner does not find it "insulting" when people talk like that? Well, I am a CSX replica owner and I DO NOT. For all I know, you guys are right all the way.

However, the OP wanted to know why one replica may be a better choice than the others. This is, as posted by more than a few sensible guys here, a very SUBJECTIVE matter. There is no right answer. Only the perception of an owner/driver can be reported here, as an absolute statement in essentially impossible in these matters of the heart.

I wrote about why I thought my CSX car is a better choice. When someone is about to read another person's opinion on why their car is a better choice, that someone needs to buckle up and expect to hear (read) an opinion that will most likely rub him/her the wrong way... unless the two own the same car LOL. Just because you don't agree with what you read, it does not mean you can automatically label it "an insult". Especially, when you label it an insult on behalf of third persons!

I called these cars cheap. I made a mistake. I should have said they SHOULD be cheap. Including mine!! Who are we guys kidding? Even the best Kirkham, ERA and CSX car is a joke when it comes to fit and finish. Who has perfect fitting panels? Who got heavy duty, sturdy wipers and mirrors? Who got perfect, smooth adjusting, sleek sports seats? Who got swift, quiet, hardware? Who's car is smooth and non rattling? Who's car here has smooth, exact, always reliable instruments? Which car CSX, ERA, Kirkham, or else has it all? These car are cheap. And the buyer should know that from the beginning! Wether you buy a roller from Las Vegas, or you build it in your backyard, these cars will never have the craftmanship of a Mercedes, Jaguar, Aston, Porsche, and YES, even Ferraris of the same era... that is the plain truth.

I will post this and continue...

[Tutosnake]

Whether you build it yourself, or buy a roller and have it finished by a third party, the vast availability of parts and resources make these cars everything, but exotic. You cannot say the same of a '62 GTO... not in a million years! The few serious replicas of a GTO or a 500TR are still around a cool $1M. And these use an ORIGINAL Ferrari drivetrain from a donor such as a 250 GTE or a 330. So $35M, although still stupid money, even for billionaires, makes a hell of a lot more sense in that market than $750K to 1.5M for a car that has been replicated over and over, and that sometimes may be indistinguishable from those $50K replicas. What is so exotic about an original Cobra (unless it is one of the 6 coupes or FIA roadsters)? It is not in its parts and labor, that is for sure. It is the Mystique, the Shelby mystique. And the fact that 900 were built. to some that rarity in numbers is enough to pay a cool Mil. It's their money, but it doesn't mean it makes sense. I am not going to get into the collectibility of a Ferrari vs. a Cobra. I did not write the rules of that game.

Which leads me to remind ourselves: what you paid for your replica is not necessarily what it is worth. I too paid a large amount of dough to get my NOS '68 427 FE Side oiler iron block engine. However, if I had the knowledge and skills, I know I could have built it for half the money. Likewise, if I had been a metallurgist with awesome bending skills, and a perfect welding ability, I could have finished an aluminum body for much less that $50K. But guess what I am neither, and so it goes that I overpaid for the car. Third parties (dealers, builders, suppliers) are here to help us achieve our goals and they are trying to make a living, which is absolutely fine! That is why I overpay for an otherwise cheap/easy/uncomplicated car to build.

And the Mystique comment? Well another subjective matter. That comment was simply my opinion, and it is not to be considered by anyone a cannon of Shelby matters. I leave that to the Gurus here. Certainly not made to hurt anybody's feelings. And why would it insult or hurt anyone? It is personal, and varies from person to person (and from car to car). I only stated what made me go for "overpaying" for a glass CSX car. I stand by my comment. You guys have said it: all these cars can look the same!! Therefore, If it is not even vaguely and loosely associated with Shelby, it does not carry the mystique. In my case, the CSX number stamped on the chassis, and that questionable MSO make the car closer to a Shelby of the past than any other build, unless someday another party can stamp the number and carry the MSO. UNTIL then, my car is a SHELBY and the others are not. Very simple, really, and it should not "insult" anyone.

In summary, life is short, and don't just assume that the forum here is to insult or ridicule, or offend anyone. What would be the fruits of that? If an opinion bothers you, read a second time, and perhaps you will find another meaning that was not there in the first place. If it still bothers you, and it means so much to you, then discuss it. But don't label the source as insulting, or offending, or whatever. I personally do not gain or lose anything with my comments expressed here. This taught me it is probable best to shut up,and keep it to myself.

BTW was drive today was awesome: absolutely clear skies, with a huge, bright sun and 68 degrees... drove around town forever. The reason I overpaid for that CSX...
Hector

[fordracing65]

Why is a Kirkham even brought up in the thread, He wanted to know between, ERA, Superformance or CSX, LOL.. Ok, I got more BEER and POPCORN, Continue with the thread...

[Tutosnake]

Because Kirkhams are awesome (painted)

Cheers!

Hector

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Why is a Kirkham even brought up in the thread, He wanted to know between, ERA, Superformance or CSX, LOL.. Ok, I got more BEER and POPCORN, Continue with the thread...

Well, when discussing CSX cars, some people only care about the Shelby brand name and serial number, however other people are very much concerned about what exact variation of CSX it is.

In terms of fiberglass CSX cars, some owners prefer the earlier cars built in Vegas, while others have opinions on the cars sourced from Mexico or Africa.

When it comes to aluminum CSX cars, some owners are concerned about whether the body and frame were sourced from Kimmons, Kirkham or from England. After all, Shelby charges a hefty premium for the CSX1000 series over the CSX4000 aluminum cars. And when it comes to the cars sourced from England, some might prefer one of the earlier cars sourced from "AC" supposedly built on "original" tooling from the 60s (but the tooling was apparently sent to the junk yard in the 70s). On the other hand the newer CSX1000 cars might be better in some way than the earlier "AC" versions.

Further, it seems that the Kirkham sourced CSX cars usually go from the shop in Poland to Utah and then to Vegas, but the 50th Anniversary aluminum cars apparently go from Poland to Africa to Vegas.

To reiterate, some people can be very concerned about the variation of their CSX, while others are not concerned about that at all, but for those who care about the details, supplier names like Kirkham, HST, etc. are going to be part of the opinions you might hear when discussing the pros and cons of a CSX.

[Bartruff1]

If I was to buy one today...absolutely no doubt ...I would buy a (289) Shelby... because it is a Shelby... (Ferrari and Porsche have been dead for quite a while).

[Grubby]

Louis Chevrolet died in 1941. Are all Corvettes replicas????

John

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Tutosnake

Because Kirkhams are awesome (painted)

Cheers!

Hector

Hopefully, you're aware that most Kirkham's are delivered polished or brush finish. But we're "tough sons of guns." We're not insulted. We prefer to show off the contours of the aluminum body and not hide them with paint.

[Tutosnake]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Hopefully, you're aware that most Kirkham's are delivered polished or brush finish. But we're "tough sons of guns." We're not insulted. We prefer to show off the contours of the aluminum body and not hide them with paint.

Oy vey, Mr. RodKnock! Now you sound hostile and just resolute on arguing on and on. Chill.
Your hopes have been met! I AM aware of the Kirkham product. Who isn't? They do a wonderful job. Have you seen their latest wonder, the 289 Coupe? Absolutely gorgeous, and ALMOST perfect: it is not blue with white stripes

I was merely giving my opinion that a painted aluminum body is more attractive to me. The airplane look does not do it for me...as apparently did not do it for the Cobra racing community as I don't recall that many CSX cars that were not painted... But a Kirkham is not a Shelby Cobra, and I understand the need to find an identity in this vast world of replicas...

You seem to be a well respected member of this Kirk, uhumm! Cobra Club forum. I am a newbie. I became a contributor to this forum. I really do not appreciate your condescending manners. If your Kirkham car is so wonderful, why don't you dedicate your efforts at exalting its attributes, rather than attempting to diminish the CXS's?

Maybe part of your angst is based on regret. You should sell your silver bullet and get a CSX. I would go for an original 2000 or 3000 series, for you will be obviusly disappointed with a 4000/6000 car

With this comment, I have made this thread more of a distraction and an exchange between you and me. That is not what I want. Therefore, PM with any other complaints, but let's let the OP enjoy and collect more valuable information than our back and forth words.

Cheers!
Hector

[WardL]

I bought a slightly used SPF because I did not have the expertise to evaluate each prospective Cobra construction quality. There seemed to be plenty of used SPFs on the market and I could buy any of these with the knowledge that it had "standard" parts and put together in a factory. For sure there are "better" and more expensive Cobras out there, but with my limited experience and money, the SPF was the perfect choice for me. I knew I would not be able to tell the difference in performance between brands because I'm not a professional driver. VERY few of the people on this forum REALLY know enough to judge which Cobra handles better. I've been on Laguna Seca in a stock Dodge Omni driven by a semi-pro driver and he could make that Omni fly loaded with 4 people! I'm sure I could not keep up with him if I were in my Cobra! I do know my little SBF has way more power than I can handle. I wouldn't be surprised to find many of the Cobras on the race track are FF Cobras! Each manufacturer's Cobra is best suited for a group of owners. As far as the CSX, I would love to have one if for nothing else than to be able to say "Yes, ITS A REAL COBRA" when asked.

[Got the Bug]

Hector,

You keep saying that a Kirkham is not a Shelby Cobra, yet the powers that be have deemed that the Kirkham Cobra (rightly so) is acknowledged as a Cobra and documented in the Cobra registry.

You've spent a lot of time supporting your position and you are welcome to your opinion. My guess is that if we posted a poll, most people would say that that the last Shelby Cobra was built in the late 60's. Anything else is a replica.

[CSX4815]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Hector,

You keep saying that a Kirkham is not a Shelby Cobra, yet the powers that be have deemed that the Kirkham Cobra (rightly so) is acknowledged as a Cobra and documented in the Cobra registry.

You've spent a lot of time supporting your position and you are welcome to your opinion. My guess is that if we posted a poll, most people would say that that the last Shelby Cobra was built in the late 60's. Anything else is a replica.

It's not a Shelby. It's a Kirkham. Only a Shelby is a Shelby.

[RodKnock]

Unfortunately, I cannot refute what you've written. No time. No inclination. You clearly have misunderstood my written word.

I can only refer you back to my previous posts and ask that re-read them. And then think about it clearly w/o malice.

And suffice it to say, both Larry Ellison and I could have purchased any of the commercially available replicas and we both chose a Kirkham.

[csx4017]

Back to the original thread.........My rear sway bar pillow blocks are not bushed. They are metal to metal.....I consider that a Con. I hope that Nick and I can improve that someday........Now " ON WITH THE BATTLE "

[csx4017]

Back to the original thread...........My rear sway bar pillow blocks are not bushed. Metal to metal is a CON in my book. I hope that Nick and I can improve that design someday. Now BACK TO THE BATTLE !!

[csx4017]

Sorry about the duplicate............post was slow and I was to fast ?????????

[Jim Norris]

Originally Posted by WardL

As far as the CSX, I would love to have one if for nothing else than to be able to say "Yes, ITS A REAL COBRA" when asked.

I too would love to have a CSX 4000 series car. I wonder though if people who ask if it's "real", are really asking if it's "original". I get asked all the time "is it a real one". I say, "no, it's a replica". If I had a 4000 series CSX, I wonder how I would answer that question. I tend to think I'd say "no, it's a replica".

[Tutosnake]

I always respond "It's a Shelby Continuation car, CSX 6108". most people react "ah, that's what the license plate mean!" and "It's much nicer that a kit..." 9 times out of 10 we then get into the cars of the 60's, serial numbers 2000 & 3000, and how 4000/6000 came about. People are fascinated by the history. Some, though, keep staring at it, and just don't care about what I have to say... they just say "That Shelby is awesome!" LOL