No alternator output?

[my427cobra]

Hi all. I just had a period correct alternator ( Autolite alternator Type 2A, 60 amp output) completely rebuilt/restored, and I am using a new Autolite regulator (reproduction from NPD, C5AF-10316-A with Silver markings).

I installed these components and have no charging. My Red ignition light stays on all the time and I have no movement on my Lucas 50 - 0 - 50 Ammeter gauge with the engine running. Also a voltage check at the battery shows only 12 volts, not the 14 volts expected while charging.

My wiring is shown in this pic:



Can anyone suggest a quck and easy trouble shooting process to determine where I've gone wrong?

Thanks
Greg

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by my427cobra

Can anyone suggest a quck and easy trouble shooting process to determine where I've gone wrong?

Thanks
Greg

Follow my posts, and diagram, in this thread to troubleshoot it. It's very straight forward.
Check out of charging system

[FWB]

Originally Posted by my427cobra

Hi all. I just had a period correct alternator ( Autolite alternator Type 2A, 60 amp output) completely rebuilt/restored, and I am using a new Autolite regulator (reproduction from NPD, C5AF-10316-A with Silver markings).

I installed these components and have no charging. My Red ignition light stays on all the time and I have no movement on my Lucas 50 - 0 - 50 Ammeter gauge with the engine running. Also a voltage check at the battery shows only 12 volts, not the 14 volts expected while charging.

My wiring is shown in this pic:



Can anyone suggest a quck and easy trouble shooting process to determine where I've gone wrong?

Thanks
Greg

maybe this will help....maybe not

[my427cobra]

Thanks guys. I'll try to translate your info to my wiring harness set-up and test as you described. I'll report back later today.

Cheers
Greg

[trularin]

Should you need it, in my gallery is the schematic of a ford. I think it is thunderbird. It shows the factory connections for that alternator.

One test I do is to get the car running and then pull the battery cable. If the car dies, the alternator is not working.

With the number of experts that are or will reply to this thread, I am sure you will fix this quickly.

Did you test the unit after the rebuild?

Tru

[FWB]

Originally Posted by trularin

Should you need it, in my gallery is the schematic of a ford. I think it is thunderbird. It shows the factory connections for that alternator.

One test I do is to get the car running and then pull the battery cable. If the car dies, the alternator is not working.

With the number of experts that are or will reply to this thread, I am sure you will fix this quickly.

Did you test the unit after the rebuild?

Tru

the pic i posted was from a 66 bird shop manual. the transistorized voltage regulator is a little different, but he posted non-transistor connections for his so......

using the idiot light with a ammeter is not something i have done so i'm not sure if when it lights is that an indication of a non-charging condition or not. A meter on it when running will surely be the way to go..

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FWB

...using the idiot light with a ammeter is not something i have done so i'm not sure if when it lights is that an indication of a non-charging condition or not. A meter on it when running will surely be the way to go..

The light only comes on when you have a path to ground on the voltage regulator side of the light itself (meaning it's not working at all). The filament of the light is used to excite the regulator. Having an ammeter doesn't make a difference at all. It sounds complicated, but it's really not -- just see the thread in my post.

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by trularin

Should you need it, in my gallery is the schematic of a ford. I think it is thunderbird. It shows the factory connections for that alternator.

One test I do is to get the car running and then pull the battery cable. If the car dies, the alternator is not working.

With the number of experts that are or will reply to this thread, I am sure you will fix this quickly.

Did you test the unit after the rebuild?

Tru

That is a risky test because pulling the battery out of the circuit can generate a voltage spike that can kill lights electronics etc. assuming it is charging.

A quick test for the alternator is to put a volt meter on the output terminal
with the engine running and the field disconnected, voltage should be 12.6 or so then jumper the field terminal briefly to 12v and watch the volt meter it should jump up if it does you have a wiring /regulator problem if it stays at 12v you have an alternator problem (warning do this quickly as it can overload the alternator).

[ffr 1137]

Jump start from a car with known good alternator.
While still hooked up take voltage reading across suspect batt.
If still 12v, batt most likely bad (bad cell not accepting charge).

Mike

[DanEC]

My understanding is that the warning light circuit somehow "excites" the VR into action after which the light goes out. I still haven't gotten my car to charge yet either but I haven't done anything more than run it in the driveway. You might stick your old VR back in and see if it shows a charge then.

Post back if you find a solution as I will be very interested in it. ERA recommends wiring in a resistor (size I currently forget) with the warning light circuit to increase the excitement of the VR (I guess). I haven't tried that yet.

PS - Patrick does have some good information on the subject. I would check it out.

[my427cobra]

Hi DanEC. I think the ERA procedure recommends a 20 ohm resistor. My NOS Lucas RED indicator light (same as on original Cobras) had a fine wire "coiled" around it's base which acted as a resistor. My recollection is it measured 5 ohms. Maybe not enough to excite the alternator.
Into the garage tommorrow to trouble shoot.

Cheers
Greg

[strictlypersonl]

A parallel resistor is optional. The disadvantage to not having the resistor is that the engine must be rev'd above about 1000 rpm in order to initially trigger the field. Frankly, in all the cars into which we've put the simpler system, I've never noticed any charging lag.

[diverrick]

Do you have voltage at the "F" terminal on the back side of the Alt, with the key in the on position?

[my427cobra]

Thanks for everyone's help. Here are my trouble shooting results so far:

1) using patrickt's process, at the F to A connections on the regulator I have 12v there.

2) will start the engine later today to test for 14v there

3) using the ERA process:
I have no needle movement on my ammeter when I turn my lights and/or on. Lights and fans all run strong. Battery is good.
At the A to Ground at the regulator I have 12v.

4) using diverrick's process, I need to check for 12v at the F terminal on the back of the alternator. To do this I have to move the heater hoses, and remove the alt from it's brackets as the comnnections on the back of the alt all have rubber caps on them and are very close to the cyl head.
I'll do this later today.

So I may have a bad ammeter - no needle movement with lights or fans running. I'll have to rig up a bench test.

Results later.

Cheers
Greg

Resu

[trularin]

The cars are old looking, that is not to say they are old. The load dump test is usally 87V riding on top of 13V DC. If the pulling of the battery causes a load dump above that, yes it might not survive it. The lower LD Specs are for 40V and those pass as well.

However, it was a standard test in garages across the US in the time of this era vehicle.

Additionally, most modules do not survive BCI unless specified. However, most will simply reset over an ignition cycle with little or no damage.

Tru

[my427cobra]

Checked, double checked and triple checked all my wirirng connections, continutity and voltages at all the recommended contacts.

Finally took the alternator and regulator out and down to the automotive electrical expert in my area. Alternator tested just fine. Regulator was DOA.

Replaced the aftermarket reproduction mechanical regulator with a new solid state regulator. Took the top cover off the Autolite C5FA and put it on the new solid state regulator.

All holes and connections lined up and re-installed.

Tommorrow morning, re-install the alternator and give er a try.

See what happens to my ammeter too.

Cheers
Greg

[my427cobra]

There IS joy in Mudsville. The new regulator was just the ticket. Alternator is now charging and the ammeter works too! Backwards, but works. I'll have to reverse the connections on the back of the ammeter.

Thanks for everyone's help with the trouble shooting tips.

Cheers
Greg

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by my427cobra

...the ammeter works too! Backwards, but works. I'll have to reverse the connections on the back of the ammeter.

... just rotate the gauge 180 degrees in the dash.