Stunning 289

[FatBoy]

Thank you Larry, you saved me typing all of that myself.

I'm sorry that my post came across that way to you Ned, it wasn't what I intended. I bow to your superior knowledge in these matters Ned, but Larry is spot on. I don’t know anywhere near as many genuine Cobras first-hand as you, but very, very few of those that I do and have seen have remained exactly as they were when they left the factory.

In fact, I think it would probably be wrong to “restore” a genuine Cobra to this degree, because it would destroy much of what made it special. The accepted best practice is for much more sympathetic restorations these days.

Also and importantly, it isn’t my car, I had no part in its creation and I will gain absolutely nothing from its sale. I don't like the presumption of deceit on my part.

A quick look at my gallery would have made it very obvious what car I have and I don’t think there is a single picture of this particular car in there.

I’ll check with the owner about the points you made Larry. ��

Paul

[LMH]

Just an FYI but a "correct" (original) shifter gaiter (boot) wouldn't have a parting line from the casting mold.
Am I picking nits!?!
Larry

[FatBoy]

Brilliant

What about the radiator?

I assume you were referring to the modern electric fan.

[LMH]

I'm pretty sure the radiator should be a brass/copper McCord type. The car looks to have a modern aluminum radiator, painted black with a modern electric fan.
I'm not 100% sure on that as I'm not an expert on COB cars but pretty sure.
Larry

[FatBoy]

I’m pretty sure the radiator is correct Larry. The modern electric fan is a sensible and practical concession.

Paul

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

...I don’t know anywhere near as many genuine Cobras first-hand as you, but very, very few of those that I do and have seen have remained exactly as they were when they left the factory.

In fact, I think it would probably be wrong to “restore” a genuine Cobra to this degree, because it would destroy much of what made it special. The accepted best practice is for much more sympathetic restorations these days...

Good point Paul.

A question for Ned and also Dan...is there a cut-off date for 289 cars for which mods from original spec. up to that date should remain with the car when it's subjected to restoration rather than taking the car back to its original ex-factory configuration (if I've explained that clearly enough)?

Cheers,
Glen

[CompClassics]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

Okay, I’m intrigued, what do you think can be improved?

Paul

Just from the single view of the engine compartment that is in the sales article...

1) alternator

2) hose clamps

3) rear view mirror and post

Unfortunately the photos or the website are a little hard to navigate so I'll leave it at that. Don't get me wrong it is a very nice car but if someone says the car is the most accurate, they need to back it up accordingly.

4) as LMH pointed out, the shifter boot

5) vent grill fasteners

6) alternator pulley

7) spark plug wires

8) leaf spring saddle fasteners

9) radiator

[FatBoy]

The main one is the alternator and I know the owner originally fitted the correct style dynamo with a cable drive to one of the gauges, presumably the tacho.

I would be surprised if the mirror wasn't correct, but I don't have the degree of knowledge to convincingly argue either perspective I'm afraid.

Knowing the owner as I do, I would bet that any minor deviations from original spec were made knowingly and intentionally for a specific reason.

The owner participates in numerous long-distance continental tours in his cars and presumably made a small number of minor practical concessions in that regard. However, I believe one of the reasons for the sale is that to make it a viable vehicle for these kinds of tours would require further concessions that he wasn't prepared to make. It was never going to be a trailer-Queen, so it had to be suitable for its intended use within the confines of his "originality" mission.

If you really know your stuff, you can clearly pick out small details that aren't technically original, but could you in all honesty, say that it isn't a genuine Cobra from the pictures? How many other 289 Cobra replicas have been assembled to this level of detail? There can't be many, if any. And in my view, that makes it a very special car and whoever buys it will have been very fortunate that this car was available at the time they were looking to buy.


Paul

[marklotus]

Originally Posted by xb-60

Yes, the builder did a very good job. Correct details on the dash (ammeter/fuel gauge/water temp gauge) are good to see.

Cheers,
Glen

What were the original scale markings for the water temperature gauge?

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by marklotus

What were the original scale markings for the water temperature gauge?

Here's the lot....



The clock, arguably (comment, Dan?) is not exactly correct....

[FatBoy]

Your oil temperature gauge appears to be a different style to the oil pressure and water temperature gauges, is that correct?

Interestingly, your clock bezel appears to be 180 degrees different to the one on the car in question.

Paul

[FatBoy]

Rinsey Mills book "Original AC Ace & Cobra" shows the different styles for the gauges as per your car (or the one in your picture), but shows the clock bezel the same as the car currently for sale i.e. with the knob in the upper half.

Paul

[LMH]

Yes, from photos, it’s hard to tell if it’s an original or a replica. I think that needs some clarification though.
If CSX2XXX has now, air ride suspension and a row of dingle balls hanging from the windshield, it still is CSX2XXX, it’s still an original and nothing is going to change that.
A replica can replicate every little tiny aspect but it’s still not going to be an original.
I think if you’re a Cobra enthusiast but can’t afford an original, you can still have the experience of driving one by having a replica. It should replicate though, otherwise you don’t get the experience. That’s my worthless $.02!
Larry

[FatBoy]

Entirely agree Larry. That’s why I have a Kirkham. I can’t afford/justify an original, but I want the “real” Cobra experience, or as close as makes no difference.
No one has claimed, least of all me, that this car is an original, but it is an extremely convincing facsimile.

Paul

[CompClassics]

Here is an original SMITHS 260 Cobra dash clock....

[LMH]

Not all pre 2201 chassis CSX cars received Smiths brand top knob clocks. Not sure of COB chassis.
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

Not all pre 2201 chassis CSX cars received Smiths brand top knob clocks. Not sure of COB chassis.
Larry

????
Like most Cobra subjects electrical systems are not easy to grasp unless you cover the whole range.

CSX2xxx chassis CSX2001-CSX2200 had AC Cars designed British electrical systems and instruments.

Sometime about the time CSX2186 was being built the first AC Cars home market COB/COX60xx chassis were built.

At CSX2201 many changes occurred in the now mostly Ford designed American electrical systems. BUT AC Cars continued to make cars for their market much differently. COB/COX60xx chassis look strange beside and CSX2xxx chassis made at the same time with regards to dash, instruments, electrical components, wiring, and where all those things were mounted.

Want to really confuse somebody mix details of how CSX2xxx chassis were done and details of how COB/COX chassis were done into a single car. (Example: I have seen cars that were originally fitted with British instruments converted to American ones. I have seen cars converted the other way. I have seen cars with mixes of British and American instruments and switches. Just because cars got that way post retail sale doesn’t mean the “factories” did it that way. From nearly the day the first Cobra was sold retail owners/mechanics/and later restorers needed to know the exact chassis number of the car in question so the correct information and or parts were supplied. I have seen funny in period correspondences between owners and both Shelby American and AC Cars where at least one person in the discussion had no idea what version of chassis was being inquired about. Imagine how confusing it was for AC Cars to be giving front and rear wheel alignment for a rack and pinion leaf spring chassis to the owner of a coil spring chassis car. There are features in a coil spring chassis not in a leaf spring one!) Go further mix in all the specification changes (lots of them) occurred between CSX2001 and CSX2188.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Just from the single view of the engine compartment that is in the sales article...

1) alternator

2) hose clamps

3) rear view mirror and post

Unfortunately the photos or the website are a little hard to navigate so I'll leave it at that. Don't get me wrong it is a very nice car but if someone says the car is the most accurate, they need to back it up accordingly.

4) as LMH pointed out, the shifter boot

5) vent grill fasteners

6) alternator pulley

7) spark plug wires

8) leaf spring saddle fasteners

9) radiator

We can add the non-original knock off spinners. Originals did not have the 'feathers' on the arrow. And the incorrect material on the dash and door pockets.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

We can add the non-original knock off spinners. Originals did not have the 'feathers' on the arrow. And the incorrect material on the dash and door pockets.

I tried to find repos without flights on the arrow but couldn’t find any. All current ones produced seem to have them.
Larry

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by LMH

I tried to find repos without flights on the arrow but couldn’t find any. All current ones produced seem to have them.
Larry

When only an original will do