Stunning 289

[CompClassics]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

Okay, I’m intrigued, what do you think can be improved?

Paul

Just from the single view of the engine compartment that is in the sales article...

1) alternator

2) hose clamps

3) rear view mirror and post

Unfortunately the photos or the website are a little hard to navigate so I'll leave it at that. Don't get me wrong it is a very nice car but if someone says the car is the most accurate, they need to back it up accordingly.

4) as LMH pointed out, the shifter boot

5) vent grill fasteners

6) alternator pulley

7) spark plug wires

8) leaf spring saddle fasteners

9) radiator

[FatBoy]

The main one is the alternator and I know the owner originally fitted the correct style dynamo with a cable drive to one of the gauges, presumably the tacho.

I would be surprised if the mirror wasn't correct, but I don't have the degree of knowledge to convincingly argue either perspective I'm afraid.

Knowing the owner as I do, I would bet that any minor deviations from original spec were made knowingly and intentionally for a specific reason.

The owner participates in numerous long-distance continental tours in his cars and presumably made a small number of minor practical concessions in that regard. However, I believe one of the reasons for the sale is that to make it a viable vehicle for these kinds of tours would require further concessions that he wasn't prepared to make. It was never going to be a trailer-Queen, so it had to be suitable for its intended use within the confines of his "originality" mission.

If you really know your stuff, you can clearly pick out small details that aren't technically original, but could you in all honesty, say that it isn't a genuine Cobra from the pictures? How many other 289 Cobra replicas have been assembled to this level of detail? There can't be many, if any. And in my view, that makes it a very special car and whoever buys it will have been very fortunate that this car was available at the time they were looking to buy.


Paul

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Just from the single view of the engine compartment that is in the sales article...

1) alternator

2) hose clamps

3) rear view mirror and post

Unfortunately the photos or the website are a little hard to navigate so I'll leave it at that. Don't get me wrong it is a very nice car but if someone says the car is the most accurate, they need to back it up accordingly.

4) as LMH pointed out, the shifter boot

5) vent grill fasteners

6) alternator pulley

7) spark plug wires

8) leaf spring saddle fasteners

9) radiator

We can add the non-original knock off spinners. Originals did not have the 'feathers' on the arrow. And the incorrect material on the dash and door pockets.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

We can add the non-original knock off spinners. Originals did not have the 'feathers' on the arrow. And the incorrect material on the dash and door pockets.

I tried to find repos without flights on the arrow but couldn’t find any. All current ones produced seem to have them.
Larry

[ACHiPo]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Nice looking 289 Cobra overall!
There is a lot of nice details throughout but there are some details that can be improved upon. Any idea of the price that the owner is asking?

I inquired about the price. Haven't received a response yet.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

I know the car well and I doubt you will find a more fastidiously detailed and accurate example anywhere....period. There probably aren't many, if any, genuine Cobras restored to this level of accuracy.

Paul

All right. I understand passion for these cars. And I comprehend the level of skill and workmanship that goes into building a recreation of a car that is now over 50 years old. But I have to ask, please do not reach the point where you say, "This replica is more accurate than most original Cobras." It simply is not true. Even suggesting this implies that the owners of the COB/ COX cars from the 60's are somehow less involved, less interested, and less passionate about these automobiles than the people building the new ones. And I can say from over 45 years of experience in knowing Cobra owners and owning Cobras myself, do not minimize the love and care that the owners of the originals lavish on their prized possessions by suggesting your car is a more accurate example. Especially in order to sell it. Thanks.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

All right. I understand passion for these cars. And I comprehend the level of skill and workmanship that goes into building a recreation of a car that is now over 50 years old. But I have to ask, please do not reach the point where you say, "This replica is more accurate than most original Cobras." It simply is not true. Even suggesting this implies that the owners of the COB/ COX cars from the 60's are somehow less involved, less interested, and less passionate about these automobiles than the people building the new ones. And I can say from over 45 years of experience in knowing Cobra owners and owning Cobras myself, do not minimize the love and care that the owners of the originals lavish on their prized possessions by suggesting your car is a more accurate example. Especially in order to sell it. Thanks.

Ned, you do have to admit that many (most?) original cars are so altered over the last 50 plus years that many aren't "original" anymore and I think that's what Paul is getting at. I got into a disagreement with an owner of a beautiful silver leaf spring car from southern CA that told me the dual 4V set up on his car was original and was how it came from SA when new but the truth is the only thing correct on the entire induction system was the intake manifold. Passionate yes but misinformed.
From what Paul is saying, I don't see any minimization of original owners passion for their cars. On the contrary, I see someone so passionate about Cobras that he tried to replicate it to the smallest degree. (Well, except the radiator, fan, shifter gaiter and a couple heres and theres but...)
That's how I read it anyway.
Larry

[FatBoy]

Thank you Larry, you saved me typing all of that myself.

I'm sorry that my post came across that way to you Ned, it wasn't what I intended. I bow to your superior knowledge in these matters Ned, but Larry is spot on. I don’t know anywhere near as many genuine Cobras first-hand as you, but very, very few of those that I do and have seen have remained exactly as they were when they left the factory.

In fact, I think it would probably be wrong to “restore” a genuine Cobra to this degree, because it would destroy much of what made it special. The accepted best practice is for much more sympathetic restorations these days.

Also and importantly, it isn’t my car, I had no part in its creation and I will gain absolutely nothing from its sale. I don't like the presumption of deceit on my part.

A quick look at my gallery would have made it very obvious what car I have and I don’t think there is a single picture of this particular car in there.

I’ll check with the owner about the points you made Larry. ��

Paul

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

...I don’t know anywhere near as many genuine Cobras first-hand as you, but very, very few of those that I do and have seen have remained exactly as they were when they left the factory.

In fact, I think it would probably be wrong to “restore” a genuine Cobra to this degree, because it would destroy much of what made it special. The accepted best practice is for much more sympathetic restorations these days...

Good point Paul.

A question for Ned and also Dan...is there a cut-off date for 289 cars for which mods from original spec. up to that date should remain with the car when it's subjected to restoration rather than taking the car back to its original ex-factory configuration (if I've explained that clearly enough)?

Cheers,
Glen

[LMH]

Just an FYI but a "correct" (original) shifter gaiter (boot) wouldn't have a parting line from the casting mold.
Am I picking nits!?!
Larry

[FatBoy]

Brilliant

What about the radiator?

I assume you were referring to the modern electric fan.

[LMH]

I'm pretty sure the radiator should be a brass/copper McCord type. The car looks to have a modern aluminum radiator, painted black with a modern electric fan.
I'm not 100% sure on that as I'm not an expert on COB cars but pretty sure.
Larry

[FatBoy]

I’m pretty sure the radiator is correct Larry. The modern electric fan is a sensible and practical concession.

Paul

[LMH]

Yes, from photos, it’s hard to tell if it’s an original or a replica. I think that needs some clarification though.
If CSX2XXX has now, air ride suspension and a row of dingle balls hanging from the windshield, it still is CSX2XXX, it’s still an original and nothing is going to change that.
A replica can replicate every little tiny aspect but it’s still not going to be an original.
I think if you’re a Cobra enthusiast but can’t afford an original, you can still have the experience of driving one by having a replica. It should replicate though, otherwise you don’t get the experience. That’s my worthless $.02!
Larry

[FatBoy]

Entirely agree Larry. That’s why I have a Kirkham. I can’t afford/justify an original, but I want the “real” Cobra experience, or as close as makes no difference.
No one has claimed, least of all me, that this car is an original, but it is an extremely convincing facsimile.

Paul

[CompClassics]

Here is an original SMITHS 260 Cobra dash clock....

[LMH]

Not all pre 2201 chassis CSX cars received Smiths brand top knob clocks. Not sure of COB chassis.
Larry

[Dan Case]

Originally Posted by LMH

Not all pre 2201 chassis CSX cars received Smiths brand top knob clocks. Not sure of COB chassis.
Larry

????
Like most Cobra subjects electrical systems are not easy to grasp unless you cover the whole range.

CSX2xxx chassis CSX2001-CSX2200 had AC Cars designed British electrical systems and instruments.

Sometime about the time CSX2186 was being built the first AC Cars home market COB/COX60xx chassis were built.

At CSX2201 many changes occurred in the now mostly Ford designed American electrical systems. BUT AC Cars continued to make cars for their market much differently. COB/COX60xx chassis look strange beside and CSX2xxx chassis made at the same time with regards to dash, instruments, electrical components, wiring, and where all those things were mounted.

Want to really confuse somebody mix details of how CSX2xxx chassis were done and details of how COB/COX chassis were done into a single car. (Example: I have seen cars that were originally fitted with British instruments converted to American ones. I have seen cars converted the other way. I have seen cars with mixes of British and American instruments and switches. Just because cars got that way post retail sale doesn’t mean the “factories” did it that way. From nearly the day the first Cobra was sold retail owners/mechanics/and later restorers needed to know the exact chassis number of the car in question so the correct information and or parts were supplied. I have seen funny in period correspondences between owners and both Shelby American and AC Cars where at least one person in the discussion had no idea what version of chassis was being inquired about. Imagine how confusing it was for AC Cars to be giving front and rear wheel alignment for a rack and pinion leaf spring chassis to the owner of a coil spring chassis car. There are features in a coil spring chassis not in a leaf spring one!) Go further mix in all the specification changes (lots of them) occurred between CSX2001 and CSX2188.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by LMH

Not all pre 2201 chassis CSX cars received Smiths brand top knob clocks. Not sure of COB chassis.
Larry

I have pictures of COB/COX cars with mainly "top knob" Smiths clocks, but also several with "bottom knob" Smiths clocks

That said, I don't want to change this thread into a "which gauges are correct" thread. The replica originally pictured by Paul is a very desirable car

Cheers,
Glen

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by xb-60

I have pictures of COB/COX cars with mainly "top knob" Smiths clocks, but also several with "bottom knob" Smiths clocks

Bet you can't say that 3 times really fast, .