Another California registration adventure

[fastd]

A suggestion: Find a more registration friendly state; register it there and then move it to Cali later...I have found that if it was already registered in a state, then changing it is much easier.

There are companies that will go to the DMV for you and handle the titling and registration even if you are out of state.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by fastd

A suggestion: Find a more registration friendly state; register it there and then move it to Cali later...I have found that if it was already registered in a state, then changing it is much easier.

There are companies that will go to the DMV for you and handle the titling and registration even if you are out of state.

Not really a good idea. Most states are clamping down on the Montana "business license" scheme. If caught, you owe back taxes, fees, and hefty fines.

[fastd]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Not really a good idea. Most states are clamping down on the Montana "business license" scheme. If caught, you owe back taxes, fees, and hefty fines.

You could be right as I am not acquainted with the Montana scheme you mentioned.

However, I am officially and unofficially not aware that of anything untoward about that process that I described in my prior post. PM me if anyone wants the details.

[twobjshelbys]

Go ahead and explain how a non-resident can register a vehicle, where all states that I know of require that you be a resident to do so. Waiting...

That is the Montana scheme: You create a LLC held by a third party to register the car under its name and then drive it with Montana plates. Every state considers that tax evasion and if caught, will cost you lots more than just registering it correctly to begin with. If your method involves creating a shadow corporation it's probably not legal.

There are legitimate businesses that register themselves in other states, e.g., legitimate corportate headquarters for many companies are in Nevada. But the two person LLCs in Montana are not passing muster.

Waiting for an explanation. Explanations not out in the open usually have issues. If it's good, let everyone know.

I suppose you could buy it for a buck, register it (and pay the taxes collected from the other party) and then sell it back for a buck.

[SBSerpent]

Another question that I have that is directed more towards those Cobra owners in Kalifornia that have gone through the SB100 certification process and have received their SB100 sticker.

How much, if at all, does the BAR referee look at or even care about how much the car was purchased for? Does he interrogate the purchase price as much as he does all the build paperwork and DMV forms?

Is this something that YOUR particular BAR referee looked at closely?

[NROTOXIN]

If you were honest in your disclosure you should have nothing to worry about.....but I'm talking about California, I'm not aware of Kalifornia's protocols.

[SBSerpent]

So, that being said, let's go back to my original question. Is the 'alleged' purchase price of the vehicle scrutinized by the BAR referee? Will he even have knowledge of this number?

[NROTOXIN]

So there's the purchase price and the low balled purchase price....got it. Like I said before, if you are up front with everything it shouldn't matter who is asking you "what $$" questions.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by SBSerpent

So, that being said, let's go back to my original question. Is the 'alleged' purchase price of the vehicle scrutinized by the BAR referee? Will he even have knowledge of this number?

You have to present a bill of sale on which to base fees and taxes. If it's too far out of whack they will probably invoke rules. Colorado had a minimum based on model and year unless it was a family member transfer. The ferrari f40 for $10 probably won't fly

[Randy Rosenberg]

Originally Posted by SBSerpent

So, that being said, let's go back to my original question. Is the 'alleged' purchase price of the vehicle scrutinized by the BAR referee? Will he even have knowledge of this number?

I'm note sure who exactly reviews the "numbers" for the cost of the build: DMV? CHP? BAR? But I'm sure someone does. I best guess is the DMV does this, as they are the ones who determine the final cost of issuing a title, and that cost is somewhat based upon the cost of the build - further, I would guess that the local DMV office will provide an estimate, but Sacramento will provide the final bill amount. Again, this is just my guess...

[NROTOXIN]

Let's just say someone will look at his documented, lowballed, alleged purchase price.

[PDUB]

You sure you want to admit that on an international forum? Or is that a hypothetical...

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by PDUB

You sure you want to admit that on an international forum? Or is that a hypothetical...

He might want to search "Morgester" and the threads involved. When he reads about how the CHP showed up at owners homes and revoked the registrations and served the warrants for tax fraud he may decide his admission online was not the best idea he ever had.......

[dsfinley]

Can anyone help that has been through CA reg for a Backdraft or Superformance in the past 6 months. I ordered a Backdraft in December (still being constructed) and now am being told there is a roadblock at the level of Sacramento because it is "too complete / turn-key" and they are not allowing the process to move forward due to new personnel in the CARB office. These are rolling-chassis kits, I am having the motor and trans dropped in by another shop.
Somehow a Factory Five which the hobbyist puts together is somehow different than having Backdraft construct one.

This is a potentially devastating impasse for me which could shatter my childhood dreams.

On the DMV website it indicates that specially constructed vehicles (SPCNS) "are not constructed by a licensed manufacturer or remanufacturer. If assembled by someone other than the owner, a manuf. certificate for a complete vehicle is not acceptable proof of ownership for a SPCNS." They do say, however, "All documents will be thoroughly reviewed. If they show that the same company constructed, delivered, and issue major supporting invoices the vehicle may not qualify for an SPCNs certificate or sequence, However the vehicle may be registered as SPCNs with smog requirements."

I was able to speak a BAR referee and he verified there has been a problem in the last 6mo with these cars. I also was able to get an email from CARB saying, "If by SB100 you are referring to Special Construction Registrations, those are given to vehicles that are made by owners from the ground up. When you are granted a Special Construction Registration from the DMV, it is given in place of an emissions label. There is no certification completed by CARB as the vehicle has been constructed by a hobbyist. You will need to contact DMV directly to determine what the requirements are or what the process is for applying for one."

At this point Backraft has $5k deposit but I am obviously hesitant to purchase the car if I cant get it registered. Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks

[SBSerpent]

Who did you place the order with and what shop is doing the engine/tranny install?

[dsfinley]

Backdraft racing. They work with a speed shop in Florida who installs all their drivetrains

[Kobura]

So was it Backdraft in Florida who told you about potential problems registering your car in California?
Since the passage of SB100 in 2001 hundreds of cars have been registered in California under the SPCNS requirements enforced by the DMV, BAR, CHP and brake & light inspectors. You should have nothing to do with CARB. They are extremely diligent in their pursuit of ever cleaner air and represent a threat to continued registration of cars like BDRs.

[SBSerpent]

Originally Posted by Kobura

So was it Backdraft in Florida who told you about potential problems registering your car in California?
Since the passage of SB100 in 2001 hundreds of cars have been registered in California under the SPCNS requirements enforced by the DMV, BAR, CHP and brake & light inspectors. You should have nothing to do with CARB. They are extremely diligent in their pursuit of ever cleaner air and represent a threat to continued registration of cars like BDRs.

Here in lies the problem - CARB HAS gotten involved by questioning how BDR and SPF builds qualify for SB100. As I said and based on information from an attorney that deals with SPCNS applications, everything is currently up in the air. Apparently, per the attorney, the arguments presented by the CARB folks don't hold water so now its just a waiting game. I will tell others what the attorney told me, a current BDR owner who is also trying to get a Cobra certified under SB100 - be patient and keep the faith. The arguments presented by the CARB officials are weak. But we shall see how this all plays out.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by SBSerpent

Here in lies the problem - CARB HAS gotten involved by questioning how BDR and SPF builds qualify for SB100. As I said and based on information from an attorney that deals with SPCNS applications, everything is currently up in the air. Apparently, per the attorney, the arguments presented by the CARB folks don't hold water so now its just a waiting game. I will tell others what the attorney told me, a current BDR owner who is also trying to get a Cobra certified under SB100 - be patient and keep the faith. The arguments presented by the CARB officials are weak. But we shall see how this all plays out.

So are you saying that carb is going further upstream and questioning whether a finished roller (without power train) is "too complete" and has the same ramifications as the previous separation of roller and engine? If so then any finished rollers including era and shelby are out too

[nkb]

Originally Posted by SBSerpent

Here in lies the problem - CARB HAS gotten involved by questioning how BDR and SPF builds qualify for SB100. As I said and based on information from an attorney that deals with SPCNS applications, everything is currently up in the air. Apparently, per the attorney, the arguments presented by the CARB folks don't hold water so now its just a waiting game. I will tell others what the attorney told me, a current BDR owner who is also trying to get a Cobra certified under SB100 - be patient and keep the faith. The arguments presented by the CARB officials are weak. But we shall see how this all plays out.

California dealer told me today that some 30-40 cars are being held up waiting for a resolution to this bureaucratic snafu. Doesn’t help a prospective Cobra roller buyer in California to put down a non-refundable deposit on a new order. Could get stuck with a car that you can’t register or alternatively forfeit your deposit. I guess you could try to register it elsewhere (which is also getting harder, e.g. Montana) or sell the car to someone in a more friendly state.

Too bad, a lot at stake for dealers and customers. The system was working fine until there was a recent change in personnel.