California: Is your kit car registered as a 1960 vintage vehicle?

[cobra de capell]

It's a silly bill when access to SB100 numbers isn't increased at the same time.

[donraye]

Boy Phil, I hope you are right. that would make my day (actually my week!). The car IS legally Titled in Florida as a 1966 Cobra and I do have the Florida title in hand. It does not have a currnet Florida registration however as it has expired prior to my buying it. I do have valid FL. title though. I will try to be as sweet and nice at DMV as I can and keep my fingers crossed that there will be no problems.
Thanks for the words of encouragement!
Don

[pgermond]

Let us know how it goes via this topic. The folks I know have just walked in and stated they have an out-of-state vehicle to register, present the paper work, a vehicle inspection maybe required (but I wouldn't offer unless asked), and pay the tax.

Good luck!

[Morgester]

Originally Posted by donraye

Boy Phil, I hope you are right. that would make my day (actually my week!). The car IS legally Titled in Florida as a 1966 Cobra and I do have the Florida title in hand. It does not have a currnet Florida registration however as it has expired prior to my buying it. I do have valid FL. title though. I will try to be as sweet and nice at DMV as I can and keep my fingers crossed that there will be no problems.
Thanks for the words of encouragement!
Don

Bad news, it appears that you Florida registration is fraudulent. Florida, like California, does not register kit cars as the year the replicate. From the Florida DMV website:
http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/custom-built-cars.php
Title Language
When you receive your title and registration, you'll notice a few things that will be noted differently than for your regular motor vehicle:
• The year (YR) of the vehicle will be the year the car was built.
• The make will be the make shown on the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (MCO) or the manufacturer's bill of sale.
• The identification number will be the VIN given on the MCO or bill of sale.
• The words "kit car" will be typed on the title and will carry that brand as long as the vehicle exists.
• All kit cars are titled as used vehicles.

If you start with fraudulent registration, the State of California has no obligation to recognize it.

This is one of the biggest problems with this hobby, to many folks play fast and loose with the rules and pass on their problems to third party purchasers. My recommendation, get your money back.

I would also strongly encourage you not to register this vehicle in California using the Florida documents. It is a felony to fraudulently register this vehicle. The only option that I see is a “do over.” You register it as a SPCN with the build year in California and note the problem with the Florida registration. Again it will be easier if you get your money back.

If you need assistance in fixing this mess you can drop me an e-mail.

[donraye]

Phil, Could you please tell me exactly which DMV offices your friends went to to register their cars with no praoblems? I know they are all supposed to be the same in theory, but personal experience has taught me otherwise. I found the law stating that the title from another state must be accepted at the CA. DMV website. It is in division 3- Registration of vehicles and Certificates of Title, (Article 3 of chapter 1 of Division 3 of CA vehicle code) section number 4304.
.
Please let me know the DMV locations they used if you can find out for me.
Thanks a ton! Don

[pgermond]

Don,

One was in Lodi and the other in Petaluma. Sent you a PM.........

[mrmustang]

Robert,

You do realize that the site you chose to link to is not the official Florida MVS site, right?

This is the official site:

http://www.dmvflorida.org/


Bill S.

[Morgester]

Here is correct link to the offical form from Florida:

http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intrane...Pmanintro.html

Search kit car

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Morgester

Here is correct link to the offical form from Florida:

http://www3.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intrane...Pmanintro.html

Search kit car

Link does not work, so I cannot confirm or deny it's content.


Bill S.

[Morgester]

Try it again, first time an error page came up, second time the manual came up

[RalphSchmalph]

I am waiting for my first Cobra (BDR #688) and have been told that it can be registered in Florida as an "antique" with a blue plate. I've seen these plates and wonder if this is true even if the car is newly manufactured. Presumably this is done more for insurance purposes than any other reason I can think of. Is this true or is this fraudulent registration? I have not been able to find the answer on the official DMV web page.

[Randy Rosenberg]

I found this pdf file, which officially states the same as what Robert wrote above: http://casey.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intran...R/TL/TL-41.pdf However is dated: 05/01/03

I found this "newer" pdf file, which states that "kits cars" are to have the year of the vehicle it replicates: http://casey.hsmv.state.fl.us/Intran...R/TL/TL-48.pdf and this document is date: 07/11/07

This July 2007 date cooresponds to SEMA's announcement that Florida has passed the "replica, hot rod, custom car" law which allows for these vehicles to have the year that they replicate: http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62294

So, I guess the question is: Was the Cobra Replica in question legally titled under the new process/law, or illegally titled before the new process/law when into affect?

[Morgester]

Originally Posted by Randy Rosenberg

So, I guess the question is: Was the Cobra Replica in question legally titled under the new process/law, or illegally titled before the new process/law when into affect?

Turns out the car in question was not brought into California. Interesting issue on the change in Florida law. I can see some real problems in the future. On a side note the amnesity legislation is now moving forward. SEMA has made some real progress on some of the more problematic issues.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Morgester

Turns out the car in question was not brought into California. Interesting issue on the change in Florida law. I can see some real problems in the future. On a side note the amnesity legislation is now moving forward. SEMA has made some real progress on some of the more problematic issues.

Robert,

So now the question back to you on this is as follows:

Provided a new Cobra replica is LEGALLY titled in the state of Florida per Florida's current rules and regulations as a 1965 "whatever" (cobra, kit car, manatee, etc), and that owner then decided to move to California, would California then accept the legal Florida title?

Bill S.

[Morgester]

I pulled the following from one of my older posts on this site:

2. With reference to the out-of-state registration and California’s full faith and credit statute. DMV will honor all legally acquired title. Assuming you follow all of the rules in the titling state (residence, taxes, disclosures), the titling states documents will be honored. If the titling state lists the vehicle as a 1965 Ford, it will be registered in California as a 1965 Ford. A 1965 vehicle is not referred for emission testing.

I anticipate legislative action to correct the above loop hole in California’s emission rules. I also believe that there will be discussions on addressing emissions SPCN vehicles in general.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Morgester

I also believe that there will be discussions on addressing emissions SPCN vehicles in general.

What does this mean? Can you elaborate? I always think to myself that the State of California can take my SB100 exemption away at any time, if a legislator originated a new bill to eliminate every SB100 exemption ever issued. My nightmare.

[RalphSchmalph]

After reading above messages I called Frank Dodd at BDR in Boynton Beach and he assured me that registration as the year the auto replicates has been the law since last July. Therefore the year of build is unimportant and the car can be registered as a 1966 Cobra. I have no reason not to trust him and will rely on his statement as true.

[Morgester]

Emissions are a key issue. This is what I can share:

SB100 is not on the table. This means that there will be no increase in numbers nor a decrease. It stands as is.

Outside SB100, current law requires the vehicle to meet emission requirements for the year that it was built. This is where the current focus is. The questions are:

- Can we have a separate emission standard for SPCN? (answer in general – no)
- Can we have a separate standard which includes specific engine configuration or aftermarket emission control devices? (maybe?)

The idea is to find some viable emission standards for SPCN that can reasonably allow amnesty applicants to legally register their vehicles. I have been impressed with both the creativity and energy SEMA has put forward in finding a solution to this issue.
Significant progress is being made. As with all things it is still a work in progress.

[RodKnock]

With so many engine configurations for so many types of SPCNS cars, is it possible to have an emission standard that would satisfy all the possibilities? Even within the Cobra community, they're are Fords and Chevys and small blocks and big blocks with both fuel injection and carburetion.

[donraye]

Hello all, I am the one who started this discussion about the Florida 1966 titled Cobra replica. I was going to NOT bring the Florida titled Cobra into California mostly due to what Mr Morgester has told me (both here and in private email conversations). I was instead going to purchase a California car but it was NOT the car I wanted and it was NOT what I wanted to do! Now I find that Mr Morgester is perhaps behind the curve it seems on current Florida law and revisions, which is not surprising since he works for and in CA, not Fl..
In light of the evidence just brought forth here about the revision to the Florida vehicle codes I am going to withold my decision on the cars in question until I actually SEE a copy of the Florida title and have assurance it is a valid and legal one and in line with the current Florida law revision.
If I find it IS I will buy this FL. Cobra replica which i prefer and I will register it in CA as a 1966 model year (which is what is stated on the FL. title). I'll keep all posted on what I find, what I do, and what happens when I do it.
Don