Trying to swing purchase CSX4000/6000

[RedBarchetta]

To the OP, buy as much CSX as you can afford. If that means ordering a hand-pounded aruminum/aluminium/aluminum version for $150K, then go for it! You just missed out on a killer deal for a turn-key one...it got a little wet but was still a decent deal.

[dcdoug]

I would also give the different Shelby dealers a call and see what deals you are able to get on in stock inventory. There is a list of all the dealers on shelby's website.

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I am VERY prejudice against SPF so I don't think I could address the question without substantial emotion and risk of stepping (stomping might be more accurate) on some toes around here. I best stay out of this one...

I am not alone in my opinions, some folks feel as strongly as I do about the quagmire.

Look -- I don't know what your (or anyone elses) problem is with Superformance. Quaqmire. Please. Cryptic comments that involve some none defined "quagmire" are low rent. They denigrate the product with no basis in fact. Just an oblique broadside.

They make an excellent product that most OWNERS are quite pleased with. Their management is excellent. They are honest. They do what they say. They are customer oriented. A great car.

I see that you are an ERA owner. They make an excellent product too. I have no need (or basis) to run them down for any reason.

What is the "quagmire"? How does this "quagmire" impact OWNERS or prospective OWNERS? Put up some fact or shut up.

Jack

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by kayakjack

Look -- I don't know what your (or anyone elses) problem is with Superformance. Quaqmire. Please. Cryptic comments that involve some none defined "quagmire" are low rent. They denigrate the product with no basis in fact. Just an oblique broadside.

They make an excellent product that most OWNERS are quite pleased with. Their management is excellent. They are honest. They do what they say. They are customer oriented. A great car.

I see that you are an ERA owner. They make an excellent product too. I have no need (or basis) to run them down for any reason.

What is the "quagmire". How does this "quagmire" impact OWNERS or prospective OWNERS? Put up some fact or shut up.

Jack

Jack,

The dealer who used the word "quagmire" posted the comment on another thread. May someone will give him a head-up so he can clarify what he meant.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

Only Mr. Becker knows what his definition of the "quagmire" is. I can only guess that CSX cars built by Hi Tech might have bad mojo because they share the same ground as SPFs.

Actually, the quagmire was first mentioned by Stephen Becker, the CSX dealer. The only thing I thing I can think of, besides the licensing issue or non-issue, depending on your point of view, is what Doug mentions above.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Actually, the quagmire was first mentioned by Stephen Becker, the CSX dealer. The only thing I thing I can think of, besides the licensing issue or non-issue, depending on your point of view, is what Doug mentions above.

Rodney - Why don't you add the link to the thread.

[patrickt]

What might help the OP (and others) is a clear and concise list of the differences between the glass CSX and the SPF. Forget the "Shelby," "real or not" stuff, just mechanical differences, maybe just concentrating on the stuff you can see from the outside.

[somedayaurora]

gigitty gigitty I thought the quagmire was hi-tech is a shelby part provider(frames/bodys?) , so how do you justify the price diffrence . Or that hi-tech is a south african company and HST is a american (made in the us and allthat in this econic ) Yes I know HST 's factory is in mexico but head office is in Cali
HST Automotive LLC

2066 Aldergrove Avenue
Escondido, California 92029
Tel: (760) 432-6491
Fax: (760) 432-6490
E-mail: sales@hstintl.com

so american made and not beside a SPF in hi-techs south african factory
SDR
________
VAPIR AIR ONE VAPORIZER

[madmaxx]

To bad you were not watching pawn stars a couple months back they had a real shelby and sold for $130K. The star of the show said it was the item he made the most profit on last year.

I suggest buying the $20k factory five off Mr. Mustang. You drive it for a year, determine if a Cobra is really for you. If it is then sell it for $20K and go spend $100k plus on a Kirkham. That makes more sense then spending $100k, find out you dont like it then selling for $80K.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I suggest buying the $20k factory five off Mr. Mustang. You drive it for a year, determine if a Cobra is really for you. If it is then sell it for $20K and go spend $100k plus on a Kirkham. That makes more sense then spending $100k, find out you dont like it then selling for $80K.

You know that's not a bad idea. A lot of us watched the replica biz for a couple decades before shelling out any real money. I like mm's idea -- if the love is real, you'll know it.

[SP01715]

SPF and Roush, the two companies that seem to get all kinds of hate around here...

BTW, I had some work done on my car by a place that was a Shelby dealer, and he hade some negative stuff to say about the cars he recieved that were Mexican built. Something to think about...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by SP01715

SPF and Roush, the two companies that seem to get all kinds of hate around here...

You're right -- and I'm not sure why. SPF catches more flack than any other brand... even StreetBeasts.

[dcdoug]

Or maybe you should buy Mr Mustangs ERA. If you don't like it you can always sell it for about the same money a year from now. Give him a call and check them both out.

[Excaliber]

OK, ya just can't let it go, so here is my Cliff Notes version:

Lot's of companies make a great product, give excellent service and their customers are pleased with them. In the case of SPF I don't approve of their marketing strategy, to wit, they way they handled the license agreement with Shelby. They have their side of the story, I see it a different way. Here is the KEY problem. They justify their marketing strategy as the just and proper thing to do because Shelby "deserves" a piece of the action.

I disagree, Shelby does not "deserve" anything from any replica manufacturer, other than a hat tip and a hearty "Well done, Sir." But that's where it ends. What Shelby did in the 60's was beautiful, when he was done, he walked away. It was over, that glorius time shall forever live on in history. It's a fascinating story I love to get every little detail of, the "research" continues! It's a wonderful hobby, this Cobra thing.

But it's history, that was then, this is now. Replica manufactuers kept that dream alive, kept the history around. A whole industry sprang up to celebrate these cars. People worked hard mostly from a spirit of the love of the car, and the man, in those early days. A way to preserve what might be lost. Some were making some serious money at it as time went on, Shelby wanted a piece of the action. Various deals were offered over a number of years. Lot's of rumors about who or how the various deals might be made. One rumor was Shelby wanted $10,000 from every replica owner on the planet as a "license fee", perhaps the amount was far less than that? Perhaps he only wanted a fee from every manufacturer not every existing owner?

No deal could be arrived at, for whatever reason. So the law suits began. Millions were spent in defense of the replica industry. SPF and FFR were the major players, but make no mistake, EVERY person that owned a replica, EVERY manufacturer that built one had a stake in these various law suits. The cost cannot be calculated on money alone, personal lives, property, buisness' were at stake. Primarily the suit was about "trade dress", the shape of the Cobra body belonging to Shelby alone. Secondarily, use of the name, "Cobra" along with other various trade marked names. 427 SC, Shelby Cobra, FIA, etc. a laundry list of "names". Ford owns the name Cobra, not Shelby, so THEY had a stake as well and joined forces with Shelby to protect their trade mark. So the "name" thing was a no brainer, Ford and Shelby won that part easily. The "trade dress" was the key. If Shelby won that it could potentially shut down an entire industry overnight. At the very least he could demand virtually any amount of money he wanted from any manufacturer. Or choose not to license them at all. The stakes were unimaginably high. While Shelby did not technically "loose" his right to the Cobra trade dress issue, he did not "win" either. Out of court settlements were the primary reason, details are sketchy in such arrangments, folks are sworn to silence. Suffice it to say, Shelby lost the right to the trade dress issue, and a bunch of lawyers made a killing in the process!

Month's, even years down the road now, law suits continue to this day. It's a quagmire of law suits in fact. Hard to keep up with who Shelby is suing now or who is suing him, and/or for what! He even sued SAAC! Now THAT was to much for me, these are the very people who did the most to keep the dream alive!!! Dam, thats like suing your biggest fan base, a real slap in the face. Whatever, some didn't care about SAAC, others did, it was all very controversial, got real ugly. Again, settled out of court, mostly everyone is happy again, mostly, but the memories linger. Trust has taken a serious hit, skepticism abounds, love lost, paranoia runs deep.

So then, from seemingly out of nowhere SPF cuts a fart, uh, I mean a deal, with Shelby for a licensing agreement. WHAT???? Say it aint so, not the very ones who fought so hard for justice in the first place? It can't be??? Yup, they really did, dam, a real bomb shell of an event. They rolled over on their brothers, for the dollar, just a good "business decision", a way to avoid even more lengthy legal issues. Now if that's ALL it was I could deal with the whole thing a little easier.

But it's more sinister than that, in my opinion. SPF has gone on record saying that Shelby DESERVES a license fee, the guy has EARNED it. Not in the opinion of the COURT and not in the opinion of many other people involved in the replica industry. That trade dress battle was hard fought and won, morally and legally. The trade dress passed into public domain, no longer did anyone need to worry about a trade dress dispute putting them out of business.

When SPF said they Shelby deserves a license fee it was a major snub to all other replica manufacturers. It was a stab in the back. It was far more repulsive than a simple "license agreement from a good business standpoint" would have been. It was personal! So why did they have to say that? Why were they so compelled to put it into words that Shelby "deserved" it? I don't know, maybe they really believe it. I don't care why, I personally will never do business with them. I'll admire their well built car, hang with the owners, enjoy the hobby. But I'll be damed if those guys ever get one cent from me! Screw 'em, the back stabbers...

[patrickt]

Dang Ernie, I wonder if that was the "quagmire" Becker was referring to, or was it another quagmire? How many quags can there be?

[Excaliber]

When it comes to Shelby, the quags are legion in number, and growing.... I just touched the tip of an iceberg.

[rustyBob]

Ditto..........

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

OK, ya just can't let it go, so here is my Cliff Notes version:

Lot's of companies make a great product, give excellent service and their customers are pleased with them. In the case of SPF I don't approve of their marketing strategy, to wit, they way they handled the license agreement with Shelby. ...

Fine. We can disagree about their marketing strategy. If that is the quagmire - big deal.

Hey, at least we agree Superformance makes a great product, gives excellent service and their customers are pleased with them.

Jack

ps - I wonder if this marketing strategy "quagmire" is what Stephen Becker is talking about. He distributes Shelbys. His supplier cuts a deal with another Company (SPF). Thats a "quagmire"?

[somedayaurora]

Im sure becker was speaking of what I mentioned . I believe Carrol took him under his wing , during the licencing witch hunt, hell he sells Shelby . Now does Carrol have a problem with the Ladies ? Horses ? Owes satan Money... the mob ? Some one said he's old and this is the work of others..B.S. I know 90 year olds I wouldn't turn my back on . What's that saying old and cunning beating youth and enthusiasim . Now one point I gotta mention carrol never really made cobras , he tweeked an AC with a ford engine, small car big engine Genius and at the end ford owned everything anyway, remember Autokraft ? Sorry I digressed : Why does Ol'shell need all this money ? Like the zmax ad , really , really?
my 2 cents (hope I didn't offend anyone , not my intent .)
SDR
________
MERCEDES-BENZ 200

[Excaliber]

Jack, the point is one of ethics in the marketplace, not the marketing plan. Marlboro makes a great product too, millions of happy customers, great marketing plan. Their ethics? Well, I'm not a big fan...