4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[RodKnock]

I'm just spitballin' here, but I would get your CSX on a lift as well as another owner's CSX on the lift, but the other CSX will have the proper setup. I would take lots of pictures, even burn a DVD with someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to front suspensions and such. Assuming everything is not right as you expect, I would then send these pics with the DVD and DEMAND that SAI R&R anything and everything that is not safe. If no response, then do it again and maybe again until such time that you feel SAI isn't going to do anything for you. Consult an attorney, preferably a product liability attorney and then proceed with a claim. Once a claim is filed, there would be deadlines that have to be met, discovery (questions), blah, blah, subpoenas, document requests, etc.

I don't know the statute of limitations on this type of product liability, but that's what consulting an attorney would help with. Someone could guide you in the initial stages and help you along the way.

More spitballing, but there are Cobra experts in the Bay Area that can help you, but they will cost money, as an attorney would. You can spend $5,000-$10,000 with an attorney, or $5,000-$10,000 with a knowledgeable mechanic that will order the right parts and permanently fix it. Pure speculation on the money figures, since I'm not an attorney nor a mechanic.

Alternatively, you can ship the car to SAI and leave it with them to fix it.

Sorry, but when you or I, or anyone spends $50,000-$150,000 on one of these cars, they deserve customer satisfaction. Again, just my humble $0.02.

[shelby racer]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm just spitballin' here, but I would get your CSX on a lift as well as another owner's CSX on the lift, but the other CSX will have the proper setup. I would take lots of pictures, even burn a DVD with someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to front suspensions and such. Assuming everything is not right as you expect, I would then send these pics with the DVD and DEMAND that SAI R&R anything and everything that is not safe. If no response, then do it again and maybe again until such time that you feel SAI isn't going to do anything for you. Consult an attorney, preferably a product liability attorney and then proceed with a claim. Once a claim is filed, there would be deadlines that have to be met, discovery (questions), blah, blah, subpoenas, document requests, etc.

I don't know the statute of limitations on this type of product liability, but that's what consulting an attorney would help with. Someone could guide you in the initial stages and help you along the way.

More spitballing, but there are Cobra experts in the Bay Area that can help you, but they will cost money, as an attorney would. You can spend $5,000-$10,000 with an attorney, or $5,000-$10,000 with a knowledgeable mechanic that will order the right parts and permanently fix it. Pure speculation on the money figures, since I'm not an attorney nor a mechanic.

Alternatively, you can ship the car to SAI and leave it with them to fix it.

Sorry, but when you or I, or anyone spends $50,000-$150,000 on one of these cars, they deserve customer satisfaction. Again, just my humble $0.02.

Thanks Rod Knock - one thing that is also holding me back is the cost to trying to do a law suit. Shelby obviously has lawyers on retainer (considering how he likes to sue everyone). The money it would cost me to win a suit would be more than the $4,000 it would cost to just buy a properly designed Kirkham suspension. I don't have the money for either. I am just trying to keep my house right now (no job = very little income - if you want a real laugh, check out property values in the Bay Area even though they are depressed , they are still rediculous). I also don't know who has a properly built 4700 series - although the new SAAC registry might come in handy to start trying to figure that out - if such a beast exists. Now a class action law suit due to prodcut liability and safety might get some attention. And to think, if there was an easy (if not the cheapest in the short run) solution to my problem available from SAI - OMG have they screwed themselves in the long run (beside what a class action suit would do to their reputation.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

The money it would cost me to win a suit would be more than the $4,000 it would cost to just buy a properly designed Kirkham suspension. I don't have the money for either.

If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low. Right now Kirkham is charging somewhere in the high teens for the original type suspension, and that is an UPGRADE price, meaning it is over and above what you are already paying for their billet suspension. Granted you only need the front, but this $4K figure seems very light to me. I wish you the best of luck, this seems like a real mess. If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low. Right now Kirkham is charging somewhere in the high teens for the original type suspension, and that is an UPGRADE price, meaning it is over and above what you are already paying for their billet suspension. Granted you only need the front, but this $4K figure seems very light to me. I wish you the best of luck, this seems like a real mess. If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

That's for ORIGINAL type suspension with Girling brakes.

[RICK LAKE]

Shelby Racer John, thanks for the pictures. Now for the bad news.IMO and I am not a person that did 4-8 years of college, this setup is junk in my eyes.
#1 the upper support is bolted to the splindle plate. How many bolts are in this? 2, or 3? Why is it not welded or both?? This looks like something a 10 year built with a band saw and drill press.
#2 There are NO washers on the bottom of the Allen heads bolts to help spread out the load to the flat plate.
#3 What material is the assembly made with? Part steel, Part Aluminum? I work on Vettes, C4 and up. The hub assemblys are 4 bolt to the spindle with 10mm threaded bolts with loctite. The hubs look the same as 1/2 ton truck units. This micky mouse setup scares me just to look at. If this was the original setup from the 60's no wonder they had wobbling in turns from the side load put on this setup. I know they are ran wire wheels until mags came along.
#4 An Axle nut that is pined to hold this assembly together, IMO is not as strong as a solid splindle to hold a brake rotor to the spindle. How do you load the bearings on this setup?? You can perload them, roadtest the car a couple of times, but then need to recheck them for wheel play and tighen them until you get a lite drag. This works good on a pinion setup for a rearend of a car but not where you need only 5-10 inch pounds of drag on the hub for the bearings to be set. Too tight and you wear out the bearings.
#5 Heat cycles will also cause a problem with looseness. Any combo of steel an Aluminum will cause to different metals expanding and contracting at to different speeds. This is why on my hats and rotors every bolt is safty wired to the next to pervent the bolts coming loose. I see no safety wire on any of these bolts in the pictures. If the nuts are nyloc, that's OK unless they are under extreme heat and the nyloc plastic melts.
#6 The lower ball joint is CLAMPED to the splindle plate??? 2 bolts taking almost 1"G" and all the weight of the car?? Mine are pressed in and now tack welded to insure they don't come loose.
I will get off my soap box now and let the smarter people hand this. I am gald that I didn't have the money to buy a CSX car for the POOR ENGINEERING DESIGNS I see in this car with a valve of $100K. There are 12 year old kids from India that could do a better job in design an this. I can see why they have changed the design if this is true. I wonder how many other Shelby owners with this frontend setup have had problems or have a problem and just don't know it with this series of car??? This could have been engineered so much better and make have even saved money for SAI. Anybody get a low speed vibration in the car when cruising or a come and go vibration in the steering wheel? I would jack up the front end and try and see if there is ANY PLAY. If there is, Locate it and have it checked and fixed. Rick L.

[patrickt]

OK Rick, so what you're saying is that the set up looks good to you and you're going to try and duplicate it on your ERA, right?

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

That's for ORIGINAL type suspension with Girling brakes.

Which is what he would need, no? Are you saying that he should put the shiny, blingy Billet suspension on his Shelby?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Which is what he would need, no? Are you saying that he should put the shiny, blingy Billet suspension on his Shelby?

For those of us with the shiny blingy billet suspensions from Kirkham, I'm offended.

I've just got thi sfeeling that SAI will stonewall this until shelbyracer's dementia sets in It's never to early to start preparing for a claim. The preparation should be cheap. Just document the problem and make SAI aware of this documentation. Who knows, once you begin preparation for claim, SAI may actually DO SOMETHING.

[RICK LAKE]

Rodknock The problem with whole issue is once SAI will not help or fix Shelbyracers car even doing a 50/50 split on the price for better parts if to TRASH them any way you can. He has the pictures and paper work to prove this car is all ready a lemon buy the lemon laws in NJ. I don't know what the deal would be in Cali or Nev. Once the CRAP starts flying, you can't put the CRAP back in the horse and act like nothing happened. Some people that are loaded don't care and don't understand, some jump on the band wagon and cause trouble and become a problem instead of helping with the solution. I have stated my feeling on this matter and think that this setup could use alot of help. I think Shelby knows there is a problem and don't want to deal with it, Kind of like a president know didn't have sex with that women. Truth be known that the lady slipped and fell on the floor and she was just getting a handle on the problem.
Patrickt I am sure if you want this setup on your ERA, we can work out a deal and your ERA can be a little more original to an original cobra. We may be even to get you a partial CSX# Have a good one Pat. Have 1" of snow in the morning oboy. Rick L.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For those of us with the shiny blingy billet suspensions from Kirkham, I'm offended.

No offense intended - hell, I've got a forged Jaguar suspension sitting in the front of my Contemporary, I'd take a Kirkham with the bling over that anytime!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

1) If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low.

2) If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

Two pieces of excellent advice. Take Amy out to lunch to go over the whole mess with her again (who knows, maybe she's read some of this thread and is just hoping it goes away). I think the solution will involve a "negotiated cost sharing" to either put in the new and improved SAI front end or the tried and true Kirkham front end. Either way, I would bet $4000 is a very conservative cost estimate. But remember, you are totally without fault here... and SAI should be reminded of that fact.