4000 series hub / upright / spidle options

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by shelby racer

The money it would cost me to win a suit would be more than the $4,000 it would cost to just buy a properly designed Kirkham suspension. I don't have the money for either.

If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low. Right now Kirkham is charging somewhere in the high teens for the original type suspension, and that is an UPGRADE price, meaning it is over and above what you are already paying for their billet suspension. Granted you only need the front, but this $4K figure seems very light to me. I wish you the best of luck, this seems like a real mess. If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low. Right now Kirkham is charging somewhere in the high teens for the original type suspension, and that is an UPGRADE price, meaning it is over and above what you are already paying for their billet suspension. Granted you only need the front, but this $4K figure seems very light to me. I wish you the best of luck, this seems like a real mess. If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

That's for ORIGINAL type suspension with Girling brakes.

[RICK LAKE]

Shelby Racer John, thanks for the pictures. Now for the bad news.IMO and I am not a person that did 4-8 years of college, this setup is junk in my eyes.
#1 the upper support is bolted to the splindle plate. How many bolts are in this? 2, or 3? Why is it not welded or both?? This looks like something a 10 year built with a band saw and drill press.
#2 There are NO washers on the bottom of the Allen heads bolts to help spread out the load to the flat plate.
#3 What material is the assembly made with? Part steel, Part Aluminum? I work on Vettes, C4 and up. The hub assemblys are 4 bolt to the spindle with 10mm threaded bolts with loctite. The hubs look the same as 1/2 ton truck units. This micky mouse setup scares me just to look at. If this was the original setup from the 60's no wonder they had wobbling in turns from the side load put on this setup. I know they are ran wire wheels until mags came along.
#4 An Axle nut that is pined to hold this assembly together, IMO is not as strong as a solid splindle to hold a brake rotor to the spindle. How do you load the bearings on this setup?? You can perload them, roadtest the car a couple of times, but then need to recheck them for wheel play and tighen them until you get a lite drag. This works good on a pinion setup for a rearend of a car but not where you need only 5-10 inch pounds of drag on the hub for the bearings to be set. Too tight and you wear out the bearings.
#5 Heat cycles will also cause a problem with looseness. Any combo of steel an Aluminum will cause to different metals expanding and contracting at to different speeds. This is why on my hats and rotors every bolt is safty wired to the next to pervent the bolts coming loose. I see no safety wire on any of these bolts in the pictures. If the nuts are nyloc, that's OK unless they are under extreme heat and the nyloc plastic melts.
#6 The lower ball joint is CLAMPED to the splindle plate??? 2 bolts taking almost 1"G" and all the weight of the car?? Mine are pressed in and now tack welded to insure they don't come loose.
I will get off my soap box now and let the smarter people hand this. I am gald that I didn't have the money to buy a CSX car for the POOR ENGINEERING DESIGNS I see in this car with a valve of $100K. There are 12 year old kids from India that could do a better job in design an this. I can see why they have changed the design if this is true. I wonder how many other Shelby owners with this frontend setup have had problems or have a problem and just don't know it with this series of car??? This could have been engineered so much better and make have even saved money for SAI. Anybody get a low speed vibration in the car when cruising or a come and go vibration in the steering wheel? I would jack up the front end and try and see if there is ANY PLAY. If there is, Locate it and have it checked and fixed. Rick L.

[patrickt]

OK Rick, so what you're saying is that the set up looks good to you and you're going to try and duplicate it on your ERA, right?

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

That's for ORIGINAL type suspension with Girling brakes.

Which is what he would need, no? Are you saying that he should put the shiny, blingy Billet suspension on his Shelby?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Which is what he would need, no? Are you saying that he should put the shiny, blingy Billet suspension on his Shelby?

For those of us with the shiny blingy billet suspensions from Kirkham, I'm offended.

I've just got thi sfeeling that SAI will stonewall this until shelbyracer's dementia sets in It's never to early to start preparing for a claim. The preparation should be cheap. Just document the problem and make SAI aware of this documentation. Who knows, once you begin preparation for claim, SAI may actually DO SOMETHING.

[RICK LAKE]

Rodknock The problem with whole issue is once SAI will not help or fix Shelbyracers car even doing a 50/50 split on the price for better parts if to TRASH them any way you can. He has the pictures and paper work to prove this car is all ready a lemon buy the lemon laws in NJ. I don't know what the deal would be in Cali or Nev. Once the CRAP starts flying, you can't put the CRAP back in the horse and act like nothing happened. Some people that are loaded don't care and don't understand, some jump on the band wagon and cause trouble and become a problem instead of helping with the solution. I have stated my feeling on this matter and think that this setup could use alot of help. I think Shelby knows there is a problem and don't want to deal with it, Kind of like a president know didn't have sex with that women. Truth be known that the lady slipped and fell on the floor and she was just getting a handle on the problem.
Patrickt I am sure if you want this setup on your ERA, we can work out a deal and your ERA can be a little more original to an original cobra. We may be even to get you a partial CSX# Have a good one Pat. Have 1" of snow in the morning oboy. Rick L.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

We may be able even to get you a partial CSX# ... Have a good one Pat.

Then I'd be able to say "yes, it's real; albeit not original." ......... Ehrrr, on second thought, I think I'll just stick with what I've got.

[shelby racer]

I'd be on a plane 1st thing Monday when every one should be in the office. I am currently working on a plan to find latest edition 4000's and see what the suspension looks like these days. I would LOVE to have the billet Kirkham suspension on the front of my CSX. Better , stronger and lighter. As far as the price - it seemed like a screaming deal to me to, but then again, amybe I am getting the sympathy for Shelby owners price . I have even considered getting a brushed Kirkham and selling the Shelby (although I have been told be the person who is responsible for the first polished csx4000 that I do NOT want bare aluminum - although the mat clear coat might work). Maybe my Cobra experience has all just been a bad dream that I can wake up from soon Thanks to all for the support and advice. I will get some more pictures when the hub / spindle / upright come apart this week end.

[Dominik]

Sorry, I didn't read all but this is a not so clever designed upright.

Mickmate is right:
„You see they slotted that upper bracket for caster adjustment which is unnecessary as the lower arms are adjustable and usually the uppers are too.“

Also, I would use bigger bolts to hold the lower balljoint bracket. I believe they are 3/8“. And the bolts should come from through the bracket to the upright. If you sleeve the aluminum upright you may be able to use a M12 threaded insert.

AMP has a better set, if I am correct.

Do your steering arms point outwards?

Dom

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For those of us with the shiny blingy billet suspensions from Kirkham, I'm offended.

No offense intended - hell, I've got a forged Jaguar suspension sitting in the front of my Contemporary, I'd take a Kirkham with the bling over that anytime!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

No offense intended - hell, I've got a forged Jaguar suspension sitting in the front of my Contemporary, I'd take a Kirkham with the bling over that anytime!

I obviously don't mind the blingy billet aluminum suspension since I've also got a blingy polished aluminum Kirkham.

Rick, I think it would be fantastic if shelbyracer worked out any deal/compromise, let alone a 50/50 deal, and avoid any legal proceedings. I think he should take all his documentation, get on a plane to Las Vegas, and have a meeting with SAI, and see what can be done. I just get this feeling that shelbyracer won't get anywhere, and I would hate for that to happen to a fellow enthusiast.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

1) If I were you I would re-check that $4,000 figure, it seems a little low.

2) If it was me I'd like some face time. Working on the phone is sometimes counter productive. A one on one over some lunch is sometimes a real ice breaker.

Two pieces of excellent advice. Take Amy out to lunch to go over the whole mess with her again (who knows, maybe she's read some of this thread and is just hoping it goes away). I think the solution will involve a "negotiated cost sharing" to either put in the new and improved SAI front end or the tried and true Kirkham front end. Either way, I would bet $4000 is a very conservative cost estimate. But remember, you are totally without fault here... and SAI should be reminded of that fact.