On the mixing of replicas with authentic old cars at concours

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Here is an example of the organizers criteria for an annual event in Kansas City. Art of the Car Concours® | Kansas City Art Institute

That looks like a nice show, for a couple of reasons. 1) 160 is a nice size -- I'm thinking of one annual show that I attend, as a spectator, that is huge. There might be 100 or more Model T's all lined up in a row and, let's face it, after you've seen a couple of Model T's, that's quite enough.... The show is so big that it detracts from the enjoyment, IMO. 2) A well chosen, smaller, lot of cars is fun -- the diversity makes for the show. On the form I saw you could even show a bicycle (if invited). And yes, if the rules, up front, say you can't show a replica, then you shouldn't be able to show a replica. I have, from time to time, seen "drive ons" in shows like these. Where somebody will actually "crash the party' with their uninvited car. It takes a special type of person to do that....

[A-Snake]

There are several element that make AOTCC different. The goal is to not have multiples of the same
make or model of the same year. Makes are not displayed together. An early brass car might be next to '63 SWC. They are displayed so the public has a surprise in each row. There is no judging per-say. The public votes for the top five "People's Choice". Sponsors have their picks based on their own criteria. It still adds up to over 30 awards. The awards should not be 'store bought' trophies. Many are produced by students of the Art Institute. Ceramic dashboards and the like.

[1985 CCX]

Funny how this is even such an issue! Question? Topic of discussion? I want to enter my dog in a cat show.....

[Historybuff]

That question is so simple I am not sure if I understand it. So I'll reiterate why I brought the whole shebang up. In three weeks I will go to Pebble Beach for which entrance tickets for spectators are something like over $200.I expect to see original cars. No replicas. And Cobras are one of the honored marques so I especially expect diligence on the behalf of the acceptance committee there. Now I won't mind if a replica maker wants to buy space for a tent even on the grounds and show their replica as long as it's labeled a replica. In fact it would be a good idea for someone like Kirkham or Shelby's company.

Going from there to the lower cost concours, say like the $30-40 ones like Palos Verdes, I still hope that the acceptance committee will "hold the line" and separate the wheat from the chaff.

As far as the comment most people can tell the difference, let's go back to the letter about fake artwork. It is most embarrassing in the art community when someone who was touted as having authentic art is later unmasked as the owner of well-forged fakes. Muesum directors have been fired for not being diligent in this respect.

What show would I have no problem with their being replicas at? Any show that's free, like the many cars 'n coffee events, cruise nights, etc. After all, if you didn't pay to get in you have no cause for complaint. Even though the Concours on Rodeo was free, I thought it a great plus than most of the Cobras there were real ones, though there was one or two replicas.

Going back to the race car -from-a-street-car question, that's a valid question but I say, for instance, in Bruce Meyer's Cobra CSX2001, it has been a race car almost since new in several different guises/trims/styles, so when he had it restored he went with one of its several "looks" from its past and has lots of pictures to prove it looked like that when raced in Europe. I'd be less enthusiastic about a real CSX2000 or CSX3000-series Cobra that was built as a street car but is now being shown as a race car, but hey, it's still a Cobra and deserves to be out on the field. Hopefully the race car conversion took place back in the original Sixties eras but that doesn't matter so much as long as it's a real chassis number.

Going back to the Pantera example which no one mentioned, I don't think Panteras will ever be a big presence at concours because the owners don't want to switch back to the clunky parts they came with like the cast iron intake manifold, cast iron headers, inadequate carburetor etc. Those cars had to be modified just to make them work well, and the head space of those owners collectively is still inclinded more toward individual prefrerences than the way they came in '71-'74 (plus that brand is problematic, I was at the factory when I saw buyers of Euro. models pick and choose which
race car components they could have put on their brand new race cars. So those were factory done mods on street cars. Don't know how you would judge them at a concours.