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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:09 PM
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Gunner- I have the high flow Mocal towards the bottom of this page http://97.74.103.94/files/sp1t.pdf with -10 lines; driving normally, I get the oil to about 80-90 c and if I am taking it easy, it dips into the 70's. This type of thermostat will mount where your filter attaches. I am using the old school filter mount on the block, down low and have the lines go from there to the oil cooler. I can get pic's if you want. Most people have the filter mounted up top in front of the engine, I have that mount as well, just tried this first and like it.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2009, 06:21 PM
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Thumbs up to KoolTools. I did almost all my braided lines without them......then I brokse down and bought the tool. HUGE difference;made making lines fun AND blood free!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2009, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
...just saying that smooth bends are always preferred if you have the room .
Something I knew but appreciate the input. It's a matter of making the install visually clean, which amazingly often translates to functionally superior.

I guess I'm out $150 for a set of KoulTools, though.

Oh, hey, they finally added a 6-8-10 kit so that you don't have to buy both large and small sets to handle the common street-car sizes. Now THAT'S koul.
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Last edited by Gunner; 10-13-2009 at 07:55 PM..
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2009, 10:18 PM
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Default Canton in my car

Gunnar,

I choose the Canton over the Mocal on the unproven assumption the Canton resistance to fluid flow MAY be lower due to the size/volume of the internal cavity and the large passages in the thermostat capsule. Maybe. One of the pictures shows the thermostat capsule and a little of the internal bypass holes.

Really comes down to which one you think you can install with good hose runs, ie: fewer acute angles and no cramped hoses.

You can take the Canton apart, then the oil cooler inlet/outlets segments on the housing can be clocked at 90 degree intervals. Made this installation much easier. My oil cooler hose inlet/outlet's are 180 degrees to each other on the Canton housing. Canton sells a bracket that uses a steel strap, works quite well. Allows a little movement, the oil hoses are stiff enough nothing can flex or work too much, but they are still free to move a little and not get pulled or twisted.

Thermostat is worth it for me. My oil cooler has been blocked off with cardboard (high strength card board thank you) for years. Oil temp was always too low, barely off the peg to 160 unless it was 85+ outside.

Now, with the thermostat oil temp is up from the old ~140/150 to 170+, street driving in traffic. When you do finally get moving, it tends to stay warm instead of dropping back to zilch.

Was at "Willow Springs" for an open track last Wednesday. Air temp was 75-80. With the oil cooler still blocked off, and 9 quarts in the pan, the oil ran 200-220. On the front straight is stayed up ~200+. Normally it would drop back very significantly. Temps stay more stable now.

My car is a 289 FIA but several of the ERA 427" cars have Cantons installed so you won't have to reinvent the wheel.

Pete
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Munroe View Post
Gunnar,
Was at "Willow Springs" for an open track last Wednesday. Air temp was 75-80. With the oil cooler still blocked off, and 9 quarts in the pan, the oil ran 200-220. On the front straight is stayed up ~200+. Normally it would drop back very significantly. Temps stay more stable now.
What Pete said. The important concept is that the Canton will hold temp better once elevated as opposed to letting it sink. My Mocals always fell off.

Very cool clear hose chafe guards you made Pete.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:09 AM
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I'm convinced. For one thing, I like accessories I can take apart as opposed to those molded or press-fitted together. I still don't like the look of the Canton much (it's pretty, just era-wrong) but in the end it's about function.

Step 1: bypass the cooler for a while and see what happens.
Step 2: if that works, do a clean install of the Canton.
Step 3: get busy on inventing this "wheel" thingy.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas View Post
Very cool clear hose chafe guards you made Pete.
Right click...save as...
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:41 AM
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I wonder if the Canton is more effective because it's a 215* unit instead of 180*?

RB, look close: that tubing went on BEFORE the hose ends.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 06:20 PM
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Default 180 vs 215

Gunner,

The MOCAL unit IS available with a 180 temp or, 212/215 setting (for a higher price I think). The CANTON only comes with the 215 capsule I think.

A big-block FE may be OK with a 180 temp, especially if the coolng system would have trouble staying ahead of the heating in traffic.

My small block 289/347, even at 10.7 comp just doesn't generate much heat. With a oil cooler/AVIAD oil pan if the thermostat opened at 180 I wouldn't gain much at all. At 215/220 the cooling system is overkill for the application, so no problem staying ahead of the heat.

The MOCAL unit is very compact compared to the CANTON. If the hose inlet/outlet orientation will work it may be perfect. Saw a 911 Porsche with MOCAL in the rear wheel well. Real tight fit. Seemingly no room for the CANTON to fit there.

Cobra's tend to have some some room up front so the CANTON may be a good choice, especially if you rotate the main housing segments to your advantage, ie: shorter hose runs without too many 90 and 180 fittings.

Pete
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 07:51 PM
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The MOCAL operation is interesting. It does not block flow to the cooler when the temp is below the XXX value. Oil coming from the enigne to the theromstat housing has the "option" of going either through the cooler or back to the engine when it is cold. It uses the increase in drag/restriction for the oil to "choose" its direction, which is basically the path of less resistance. So if you are looking for something that will bring your oil temperature up to temp fastest I don;t thin the MOCAL is the way to go (I'm not sure how the canton works). If you are driving in a cold environment this is not the way to go. I didn't know this was how the MOCAL worked before I purchased it or I would have looked into others.
VW (IMO) has the best design for getting the oil up to temp in their oil/water heat exchanger plate. ...I'm sure other companies have also done this config also.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Munroe View Post
The MOCAL unit IS available with a 180 temp or, 212/215 setting (for a higher price I think).
180 and 200 are what I've found, at the same price. The Canton's 215 is probably more suitable to over-cooled Cobras. That seems to be the consensus, anyway.

Quote:
Cobra's tend to have some some room up front so the CANTON may be a good choice, especially if you rotate the main housing segments to your advantage, ie: shorter hose runs without too many 90 and 180 fittings
I think I can do a very clean install with almost no sharp bends by fitting the Canton to the remote oil filter bracket. One 90* bend, hardline, between the filter bracket and the Canton input, and by reshaping the other lines I can all but eliminate other bends.

I just wish the Canton came in funky 1966 finish.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2009, 03:37 PM
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One of the reasons Canton runs the higher t-stat because they want to get any water moisture out of the oil.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2009, 06:15 PM
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I like the idea of the sandwich adapter better than the in-line thermostat just because it eliminates the extra fittings and can be easily removed should a leak or pop-off occur. One less fitting is one less potential problem.

Doesn't help with the lines to the engine, but in a pinch you can also use one of the cooler lines as a quick fix.

Except for the track or some really hot days the cooler is of no benefit anyway. Nearly all engine wear occurs at lower temps and is almost non-existant once the oil heats up and flows.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2009, 11:18 AM
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I started the changeover yesterday, since my TOP expired and I can't drive 707 until January. One line remained the same but I wanted to change out the hose ends (from red/blue to black anodized). The used ends of the hose were as used ends usually are - pinched, braid fraying out, etc.

As I have *never* been able to assemble braided lines without much sweat, blood, cut fingers, and paint-peeling cussing, I was happy to drop $30 on a #10 Koul Tool for this job.

All I can say is that the damn thing is worth its weight in gilded platinum. I had more trouble pulling the old hose collars off than threading the used hose into the new collars. All hail Koul Tools!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2009, 03:53 PM
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Well, we had a relaxed Xmas and my BIL is coming to visit tomorrow, so I wanted to get the Cobra at least running. An hour or two's work, and the oil thermostat installation is basically done. I need to put the side shroud, splitter, and front beauty bar back on, and start on fabricating a support bracket, but the plumbing is done and I'm really pleased with the result.

...I can't seem to find any way to include a link to one of my gallery photos. It's in my gallery. Lousy photo, hard to shoot a combination of black and shiny, but shows what I did.

The AN-12 hard coupling supports the cooler and will be reinforced with a bracket attached to the oil filter mount. A short straight line returns oil to the Mocal block adapter. Two straight connections couple the cooler lines to the thermostat. Finally, a looping line goes from the Mocal adapter around the front crossmember to the oil filter.

Net, I cut a foot off the cooler lines and replaced two 45* couplers with straight ones. I added about a foot to the block-filter line. The 90* hard coupler and the oil thermostat are the only new additions to the circuit, and both have huge flow. I'd have to do an item-by-item audit but I think I am no worse off in terms of loop length and number of bends than before. By looping the block-filter line around, I gave it a smoother bend and kept it from rubbing on several things. (One cooler line also rubbed on the steering shaft - no more.)

I fired it all up, expecting at least one hose end to blow (I'm just lousy with braided hoses) and at least one or two fitting leaks.

Not a one. Warmed it up for twenty minutes, until the short oil loop lines were hot and the cooler loop still quite cold. No leaks, no signs of problems. Had it so nicely warmed up, and 707 was in part an early Xmas present, so I had to drive around the neighborhood (shh - expired tags!). Parked in the cleaned-up garage... and then noticed the trail of drips up the driveway. Looked under to see a dripping puddle. Oh, no... ah. Slight overfill on the coolant, nothing more. No leaks.

I will post more pics as I get the details of the installation completed, which will include removing that rusting bare-metal filter bracket (!), fabbing a second bracket to support the thermostat and getting both coated.

I think this is a fantastic solution - perhaps a little more complex and bendy than an optimal mounting with all smooth bends and straight connectors, but no worse than the base remote filter/cooler setup. I won't know precisely how it works until I can drive in January, but my starting oil pressure was noticeably higher, and the oil temp came up to 60* in just 20 minutes of idling and a short drive in 50* weather.
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Last edited by Gunner; 12-25-2009 at 03:55 PM..
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2014, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBarchetta View Post
An idea that may come in handy. In my emergency tool bag I keep a ready section of Aeroquip AN10 line with 90* male fittings, all pre-cut and assembled to fit the gap between the in/out fittings on the oil cooler. If I ever puncture the oil cooler out on the road, then it's simply splicing in the connector piece to the existing lines with a wrench. Beats calling AAA and asking for a flatbed tow home.

-Dean
Thats idea is good, or have a male to male union adapter to join the lines together, and if running a T-stat have some caps...
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