Dang seatbelts...

excelguru · #1 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 11:54 AM

Does anyone else have this problem? My lap belts can be very hard to adjust. This is not a problem for my side of the car since nobody else ever drives it. But it can be a real pain for the passenger.

I'm using the Crow 5-point harnesses as acquired from Unique. I have them mounted as far "outboard" (towards the sides of the seat) as possible, but the seat stills sits nearly right on top of the steel adjustment buckle (or whatever that doohickey is called). If that little doohickey was just a few inches farther from the anchor points, it would make a world of difference.

Also, the belts tend to stiffen somewhat from lack of use. Is there an easy way to "soften" them? Does Crow offer short lengths of belt with an adjustment buckle that could be installed to move the adjustment point out from under the seat? Has anyone else experienced this?

Keith

Mr.Fixit · #2 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 12:46 PM

Some of the other belt manufacturers have the adjustement at the buckle end, not the anchor end.

Rich · #3 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 03:05 PM

Keith, did you check out the Crow web site? I seem to recall different adjustment configurations.

Rich

Hal Copple · #4 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 07:18 PM

there are basically two types of seatbelts. "pull-up", and "pull-down".

The former, which sounds like what you have, are made so the driver is snugged down by pulling up on the webbing, at the floor attachment. My understanding, is that this system is made for the pit crew to belt the driver in, for the race.

the latter is what street cars probably have, where you snug your seat belts by pulling down, by grabbing the loose end of the belt at the buckle. So with this system, you don't have to try to reach down alongside the seats, and try to somehow pull them up.

I have a full five point harness, with "pull-down" lap belts, and "pull-down" Y style shoulder belts. The crotch strap, which i likewise always use, holds the belts down more comfortably, does not have any easy adjustment, it is just fit with the floor mounted hitch point. I have a Deiest on the passenger seat, and a Simpson small buckle for the driver. Both are comfortable, i like the smaller "latch and link" of the Simpson. A full set of Simpsons, with mounting eyelets, and steel back up plates, in Y configuration for the shoulder belts, is about a hundred bucks from them directly.

Seatbelts do wear out from fraying, i am on my third or forth set due to fraying from the knurled adustment slider.

I wear all of it, all the time.

Rodney · #5 (**permalink**) 02-18-2003, 08:41 PM

Excelguru, could you tell me the Crow part# your using. I'm considering purchasing a set of Crow five point belts and wanted to make sure I'm getting the proper belts! Kind of turned off by the belts hardening though? Thanx

Mr.Fixit · #6 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 08:30 AM

Race sanctioning bodies make you replace your belts something like every other year anyway. That's why they have a date stamped on them.

excelguru · #7 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 09:29 AM

Sounds like I have the "pull up" version

. I didn't realize there were two versions. I may look into acquiring the other version.

I'll find that part number and post it. The stiffening of the belt material may be caused by soapy water running into the interior when washing the car (impossible to avoid). When it dries it might be causing the belt material to stiffen somewhat (heck, it sounds plausible to me).

Keith

Rodney · #8 (**permalink**) 02-19-2003, 12:18 PM

Thanks I'm waiting until I find out what belts you've got before ordering.

excelguru · #9 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 02:47 PM

Rodney,

The part number stamped on the side of the Crow box is 20024. I hope that helps.

Keith

Rodney · #10 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 06:02 PM

Ya Keith, these are the 60 inch "pull up" belts as listed in the catalog, Just wondering if 60 inches might be to long? I measured my existing lap belt at 42.5 inches with me in the seat. I think the 50 inch belts will work in my case, but I'm not really sure. Could you tell me if there is a lot of material left over while your in the seat? I hope I'm not being to much of a pain.
Thanx Rod

excelguru · #11 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 07:39 PM

When buckled into the seat, there is a small portion of lap belt left over on each side. Here's a pic...

As you can see, this can easily be tucked beside the seat. Also bear in mind that I have a 34" waist. As for the shoulder belts, well...

This pic shows the shoulder belts completely extended. I had to take ALL of the slack out of the "single-belt" portion above the "Y" (hidden behind the bulkhead) in order to make the belts tight on my shoulders (I'm 5'-10"). I have plenty of shoulder belt left over after tightening (9" or 10" extra). I'm assuming the 60" measurement is referring to the shoulder belts??? If that's the case, the 50" belts would have been fine for me.

Keith

Rodney · #12 (**permalink**) 02-20-2003, 10:41 PM

Thats great Keith! Thanx! I'm also a 34" waist but 6'1". I appreciate all the info and pics you've passed along with regard to the safety belts! I think I'll go with the 50" belts! I'm planning on using the roll bar "x" member and hopefully I won't have as much slack in the shoulder portion of the belts? The next question, what colour? Boy racer blue or traditional black? Thanks you've been very helpful. Rod

Jerry Cowing · #13 (**permalink**) 02-21-2003, 11:00 AM

Keith,

It looks to me like you installed your belt anchors too far under your seats. My belt anchors are visible on the sides of my seats and it looks like yours are installed under your seats. I don't have any problem adjusting my belts and they are the pull-up style like yours. I attached my outboard anchors to the outside frame and the inborad anchors to the driveshaft safety loops.

I think you'd be able to solve your belt adjustment woes by moving your anchors so the belts pull straight up rather than at an angle from under your seats like your pictures show. Also, the anchors will be much stronger with a straight pull during a crash than when pulling at an angle like yours are installed.

excelguru · #14 (**permalink**) 02-21-2003, 12:11 PM

Jerry,

Okay, you've definitely got my attention. Regarding the outboard belt, did you attach the anchor to the side of the outside tube steel chassis member? That would require a slot in the floor for the belt and steel anchor to pass through, correct? Therefore, the entire anchor piece (the steel piece) is located underneath the floor, right? That seems easy enough to fix (I think).

On the inboard side... uh, how on Earth did you do that? Got any pics of your build-up? (I'll check your gallery after I post this.)

Sounds like this could resolve my seatbelt woes. I had to attach the anchors underneath the seat because of the narrow steel plate located there (after punching through the tube steel twice). The floor under the seats looks like Swiss cheese from all my mistakes (weight-saving plan

).

Keith

patrija · #15 (**permalink**) 02-21-2003, 02:24 PM

Keith - You've ridden in my cobra. I have the Simpson 5pt pull-down type for reference.

Jerry Cowing · #16 (**permalink**) 02-23-2003, 05:42 PM

Keith,

Here's what I did to attach my safety belts:

Outside attachment: I believe the belt bracket came with a 90 degree bend in it. For the outside installation, I straightened the bracket. Then I measured and re-measured to determine where to drill the hole through the floor so that it is just aft of the driver and outside of the frame (close to the door sill). From under the car, I drilled a reference hole up along side the frame into the Cobra's floor. Then I cut a 1 -1.5 inch slot in the fiberglass floor the size of the smaller part of the belt bracket with the bolt hole so that it is a little aft of where you will be sitting (so the belt is a little behind you and not directly beside you). The part of the bracket the belt slides through is above the fiberglass (inside the car) and the part with the bolt hole is below the fiberglass. I then drilled a hole from the outside side of the frame lined up with the bolt hole in the bracket and in the center of the square frame. The fiberglass body is just barely above the frame so there is barely enough room to get a drill bit past the fiberglass and into the frame/bracket hole. I then taped the hole (threaded it) with fine threads. I then put a strong bolt in it with fine threads that has a high shear value with a lock washer.

Inside attachment: I again straightened the belt bracket. Next, I purchased an "eye" bolt (not the one with the opening, but one where the entire circle of the "eye" is welded together). Don't remember the size, but the bolt is about the thickness of your little finger. I then went under the car and lined up a spot above the bracket that holds the driveshaft loop with the floor next to the tunnel. I cut a 1-1.5 inch slot in the fiberglass floor very close to the tunnel directly above this drive shaft bracket. I then lined up the belt bracket protruding through the floor with the eye bolt and drilled a hole in the drive shaft safety loop bracket so it is directly below the belt bracket. I then put a high shear bolt with 2 washers through the belt bracket, then through the eye on the bolt, another 2 (large & small) washers, a lock washer and the nut. Then I tightened the eye bolt down against the safety bracket with a lock washer and nut. It's a tight fit, but works real well. I then cut the excess eye bolt off leaving a few threads past the nut.

Hope this was clear. If not, give me a call. Sorry, I don't have a digital camera to take some pictures of my install. Maybe Jerry Rowley will come by and take some for you.

Hal Copple · #17 (**permalink**) 02-24-2003, 05:38 AM

Hello Jerry: i couldn't quite follow your thread, but then again i just got up.

My car has the ring bolts, the ones that come with the Simpson set, or you can buy at any racing place, they are mounted thru the floor at the rear-sides of each seat: my seatbelts have a webbing that goes thru a snap fitting, i just snap the belts in, and occasionally out to clean them, or replace them. They come with steel plates, with a matching hole drilled in the middle, so you can mount the ring bolts with the backing plate, so they don't pull thru thin metal or fiberglass. On my particular car there is a steel strap under the fiberglass just for this purpose.

For the shoulder belts, on my car there is a pre-made slit and cut in the rear bulkhead, the webbing attachment then slips thru there, then bolts with an ARP bolt thru the frame. I mounted my crotch strap to to the floor, thru a steel plate under the floor.

There are other ways to do the sholder belt thing, too.

But several years ago, i just decided i would always put it all on, every time i drive the car, properly adjusted. A minor accident would put my face right into the metal steering wheel hub.

While this might improve my looks, it would mess up the Momo.

If you want any digital pictures, just let me know,

Wear it all, ya'all.

GeorgiaSnake · #18 (**permalink**) 02-24-2003, 06:05 AM

Jerry did you check with the belt suppier about bending the bracket? On my Crow belts thay are very specific about NOT bending any attachment hardware.

I would like some pictures of how you did the installment if you have any. I am a couple of weeks away from installation and still looking at the options.

Also the shoulder belts that I have seen look unsafe in most cases. If the attachment is on the frame rail and the belt is threaded up and through a slot in the fibergalss and then over the seat the belt would be transfering any crash load on the fiberglass. If the fiberglass breaks you will have a pretty good bit of slack created.

Randy

Hal Copple · #19 (**permalink**) 02-24-2003, 05:55 PM

on the SPF cars, the steel hoop behind the rear bulkhead is right behind the fiberglass, so the lap bracket goes in about an inch, bolts thur, then the part that holds the webbing still protrudes into the cockpit, so the webbing is never in touch with any fiberglass, so it can't cut or abrade. You can adjust the webbing for the rough fit right there, and fine adjust with the belting at the buckle.

I would not want any of my webbing to rub on anything but my own self!

GeorgiaSnake · #20 (**permalink**) 02-24-2003, 07:12 PM

We are in agreement on this issue Hal. I'm still looking and thinking about the attachment points. I sure don't want my ass flying about in the event of a mishap. Many of the cars I have seen have the shoulder harness attached to the frame rail then they go up to just above seat height and enter the cockpit through the rear bulkhead, not the best way from what I know.

Randy