SPF paint going bad

[TKing]

I have a paint problem and I afraid to hear the soloution. I've noticed small pin head size bubbles appearing on the fenders. Problably 100 total on the car. I've remember hearing stories about fiberglass and the curing process and problems with wax or something in th glass that over time seeps out. Any ideas what causes this? I've also heard the problem can continue even after repaint. Any cure to the the problem?

Thanks,
Tom

[G.R.]

Wow, first I've heard of a SPF with a glass/paint problem. I know on some boats it happens--called "blisters", pinholes to dinner plate size, caused by moisture intrusion(#1 cause), or improperly cleaning of mold release waxes, cure is usually stripping the glass, then reglassing, after a "drying" period if moisture is present in the glas. Usually fibreglas cars don't suffer the problems of boats. Could be that your car didn't get a through enough cleaning and sanding before being sent to the paint shop--rare but it could happen in a SPF.

Talk to a dealer and have them inspect the car.

[Double Venom]

Tom,
Can you send me a picture? Better yet, Elizabethtown isn't that far away, could you bring the car up?

It could be numerous things, but your right, the most suspect is improper surface prep. Highly unusual for/from SPF though.

What the earlier conversation consisted of was mold release agent(s). A fiberglass mold receives massive amount of waxing prior to being used. Once the body/parts are pulled they should be cleaned of any mold release agent prior to any sanding at all! We will normally use acetone.

Failure to clean prior to sanding can and will actually heat up any left over agent and now with the fiberglass pores open, will force this heated wax deep into the glass. It IS just one possible reason for the problem you describe.

Another possibility is nothing more than water (humidity) coming out of the spray gun during the painting process.

If you're lucky, a simple wet sanding with 800 or 1000 grit and a new buff job could bring her right back up to par.

Let me know if I can help.
DV

[TKing]

DV:

Thanks for the information. Sounds like I may have hope. I plan on attending the Spring Fling weather permitting, but I'll send some pictures. I appreciate your advice.

Tom

[Bill Wells]

Tom, are the bubbles near the fenders where the side pipes exit ? IF SO , your pipes are too hot from either your distrbutor timing being retarded too much or your combustion mixture is too lean. check it out, and once corrected the bubbles most likely will recede. continue driving if you are too retarded (car ,not you personally) or too lean and the bubbles will worsen. spf paint is outstanding, so if your problem is not near where the pipes exit thru the fenders, then you have a rare example . you most likely got your car at Dynamic ( if bought new) and if you are not too far from them go back and have them check it out. bill.

[Barnsnake]

The gel-coat blistering seen on boats occurs below the waterline, generally as a result of algae attachment. It can also be caused by high concentrations of certain minerals in the water.
That phenomenon is not a concern on a non-submerged car.

[G.R.]

Beg to disagree, Jim, I have a friend undergoing repairs right now on a Valiant 47 with blisters all over the cabin top as well as below the waterline. And the cabin top never set in water.
Blisters can be caused by exposure to moisture, improper mold prep or finish, improper resin/glas mixture, moisture in the paint or gelcoat at finish, improper cleansing of the release or wax from the body shell, or a myriad of other reasons.

[Barnsnake]

I spent 20 years in the service side of the marine industry and I've never seen "blistering" as you describe it in dry parts of a boat. I've seen delamination of the gel-coat (not referring to paint over the gel-coat) due to excessive catalyst in the first layer of structual glass. Admittedly, my experience is in the sunny south. I've never been around may boats that spent time in the Puget Sound area. Based on some of my trips up there it may be as wet above the water line there as it is submerged in Texas. :-) If the blisters are water-filled, that may be the difference.
In any case, gel-coat blisters are much larger that those TKing is describing. He shouldn't have to worry about grinding the gel-coat off.

[G.R.]

Not really disagreeing with you per se, but the boat I mentioned has spent 90% of it's life on the southeast coast, Gulf coast, Caribe, or So CA. It's cabin top has pinsize blisters to those the size of half dollars, dry no moisture, no seperation of laminates, boat is 24 years old and the blisters began showing up about 2 years ago on the cabin top, currently on the hard @Svensons Boatyard in Alameda(SF), Ca, undergoing repairs.
Basically my belief is that the SPF had an improper cleaning of the body shell or there was moisture present when it was painted.
Or if it is in the exhaust exit area it could be due to heat as Bill Wells suggested.

[Double Venom]

Uh-OH...I thoughd I saw a puddy TaT!

Paint problem equeals dozens of explanations, hundreds of opinions and it never fails, a discussion takes place!

Barnsnake: GR is gonna owe me on this one. The blistering you describe is pretty much in GR's corner. To much catalyst, once again moisture, etc., etc. Blistering WAS pretty much of an industry wide problem , espesicaly in the '50's-late 70's. I think they have pretty much solved the blistering with new formulations, chemicals and procedures. EggHarbor to Bayliner all had their problems at one time or the other. Above, way above the water line and below!

Bill, good point. We've fixed many snakes with overheated breath, but that particular problem will normally bust a bubble of paint loose from the primer about the size of a pencil eraser, with some actually going right to the glass.

Heck, it could be none of the above!

Tim, what do you mean, planning on coming to the Fling, weather permitting? You have got to get registered, then get the car here! "We'll" do the inspection right here. Heck, we might even fix it for ya at the same time Besides SPF will be present if you can't get it to Ross.

Blisters, Pinholes, Bubbles? Location...exactly?

DV... The Dr. with the winning diagnosis will get a prize! Of course he will have to be present at Da Fling!

[Snakecharmer]

TKing,

I too had a SPF with paint problems but as Bill and DV mentioned, it was probably caused by retarded timing and the resulting high heat. The good news is that SPF is a class organization and they happily fixed my paint problems for no charge. If your problem has resulted but a bad batch of paint (a common problem with car paint), I'm sure your dealer will do the right thing and fix it for you.

Best of luck,

Charmer

[anchor2]

Snakecharmer: I hate to say or admit it to myself....but my car is also showing some paint problems. I have had my car about a year and it was perfect when I first got it. It now has some flaws that show in the sun at certain angles which may be bubbles. How long did you have your car when SPF took care of it?

[Dangerous Doug]

I've personnally seen this on one other SPF before. The blistering wasn't limited to the area around the pipes. The blisters were all over the place, but most predominant on the lower panels on the front and rear ends of the body. You had to look for them though. To the casual observer, the car looked fine. The owner described it as fiberglass outgassing, due to an improperly prepared body for paint. He was trying to work something out with SPF/Dynamic Motorsports to get it repaired, but didn't want to ship the car to Dynamic's facilities to get repainted. He wanted to use a local shop. Not sure how it was resolved in that I just talked to this guy at a local car show (Hot Rods at the Beach, Santa Cruz, about two years ago...)

TKing: I recommend taking the discussion up with your manufacturer. Something like this should be covered under warranty, one would think, given the big buck invested.

Dangerous Doug, formerly "DKing"

[jrussell]

Tom,
Out of curiosity, what is your car #, and how long have you owned it? I know Superformance changed paint suppliers about 200 cars after mine ( somewhere in the 700's). This might help pinpoint, or at least narrow the possibilities.
Like other above me, I strongly suggest you contact your purchasing dealer as soon as you can because I have always had wonderful service and support from my dealer- Doug Reed, which I believe to be the norm.
Please keep us informed, but a bit more information will help us help you.
Good luck,
John Russell

[TKing]

Thanks everybody for your expertese and advice. Tonight I will take some pictures and upload them to this thread.

The pinhead size bubbles are primarilly on top of the fenders. The car is #140 and is silver. I have not spoken to Dynamic about the car. I'm the second owner. The car has about 3000 miles. I recall seeing a few bubbles when I bought the car about 8 months ago, but more are appearing. The car has always been garaged although I have driven it to work about 6 times. At work the car sits in the sun all day.

I recall reading in Kit Car magizine problems such as this, but I thought these type of issues were solved a long time ago. I doubt Dynamic will be helpful since I'm the 2nd owner.

I took the car to one of the better body shops in town, but they were uncertain about the cause or solution to the problem. They don't specialize in fiberglass repair.

Thanks very much for your help.

Tom

[TKing]

DV:

Thanks again for your information. I forgot to mention in my previous message that I will be at Spring Fling as a spectator not as a particpant. I've been to 2 of these events and enjoyed them very much, but unfortunately I never have the time to enjoy the car and events as much as I want. I'll try to find you there.

Tom

[Bill Wells]

TKing/ tom, #140 was probably made in early 1996, my #156 was a june - sep 1996 build ( i have paperwork showing various departments quality sign offs during those dates, but no official 'final' build date records). make sure owner number one did not have some paint work done to the car too...could be someone else messed with that rascal. my 156 after 8 yrs has nary a flaw other than stone chips. your car/ my car would have been the 'glasurite ( spelling i?) base/clear coat paint ( german paint supplier ?). good luck. bill

[Bill V]

I too am seeing pinhead sized blisters in my paint job. My current vehicle is not a Cobra replica nor does it have a fibreglass body. It's a white 2000 Dodge Intrepid and the problem (at least for me) is definitely the clear coat. Most of the blistering is along the outboard surfaces of the roof, above the windows and on the C pillars. The car sits in the Florida sun all day. Needless to say I'm not happy about it.

[TKing]

Here's 2 pictures that are similar to other areas on the fenders. Thanks for your advice.

Tom

[TKing]

Another