Sv Binding Steering

outlaw · #1 (**permalink**) 10-09-2004, 01:20 PM

OK guys, here's how it happens. Under normal operation, that is moving traffic, interstate driving etc., the steering is perfect, but when I get caught in some slow moving traffic for an extended period of time, my steering begins to actually stick or bind either side of center. It is easily corrected by moving the wheel, but to break away from the "stick" one ends up over correcting, thru center, and to the "stick" on the opposite side. What happens is you end up driving from "sticky spot" opposite to the opposing "sticky spot". Its very annoying and actually what I consider a bit dangerous when you move from the slow moving traffic (and the associated binding) to the interstate. At speed, overcorrecting is MORE than just annoying.
I talked with the guys at SV and they said they had never heard of the problem and could provide no assistance. It is difinitely heat
related. On a SV car, the steering shaft aft of the U-joint, going in the direction of the steering wheel, passes thru an aluminum tube, with a bearing on the engine end and the steering wheel end. I believe the bearing/aluminum tube is being heated by the headers (directly below) and expanding causing the shaft to bind. This n turn causes the steering to bind. I fabricated a heat shield to provide a barrier between the headers and the steering column and it improved the condition tremendously, but its not completely cured. While fabricating the the heat shield, I had to mount the lower portion to the brake master cylinders lower attach bolts. it was then I noticed the brake fluid being "cooked" from the master cylinders. The cylinders were "wet" with fluid. The fluid also caused some stains on my aluminum covered foot box. After driving the car, BEFORE I installed the heat shield, you could not touch the brake master cylinders, they were way too hot. With the heat shield, the brake master cylinders are warm to the touch now with no fluid, BUT, after extended slow driving, I still have the binding steering. Its not nearly as bad but still there. I even put some heat shield material around the shaft, but after extended slow driving, the binding returns. Have any SV owners experienced this problem? And if so, what was done? I am open for any ideas, suggestions. Someone besides me MUST have had the same experience. Other than this little annoyance, I am driving the "tar" outta this car and have never had so much fun. I'm luv'n it! You can catch a glimpse of the heat shield in the engine cmpt pics of my gallery.

Thanks for your help!

Outlaw

Sydney · #2 (**permalink**) 10-09-2004, 03:40 PM

Hi Outlaw,

I'm still building mine. I was wondering if you packed those little needle bearings in the aluminum tube with good grease before you put the steering shaft in.

Sydney

outlaw · #3 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 06:24 AM

Syd,
I did pack the steering column bearings with some light grease during assembly. As hot as the master cylinders got before the install of the heat shield, i would not doubt that the grease may have been cooked out though.
As stated earlier, the car drives great as long as you don;t drive for an extended period of time at a slow pace (30 minutes or so). This could be just normal driving around town in 5:00 traffic. It doesn't have to be parade type traffic. I can tell when its beginning to bind, and usually will get on the open road and avoid the problem, but I feel it just shouldn't happen.
Any ideas? Other than this annoyance, the car is great
and i've been having a blast. Don't regret for one minute i got a SV.

outlaw

Tim Brewer · #4 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 07:10 AM

Hey Outlaw, nice looking car!
Couple of questions. does your steering shaft come from your firewall perpindiclar? Make sure it is. Also, your first steering joint looks like it is a little steep, can you lessen the angle? I'm fairly sure your problem has something to do with your steering joints and not the shaft itself unless it has some other problem. You should'nt ever have a problem with the shaft itself due to heat.
Look for metal to metal contact on the joints. Hope this helps,
Tim

SVMCOBRA · #5 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 08:00 AM

Hey Outlaw, I had a slight binding problem with mine. Check the brass pillow block that supports your column close to the steering rack. I had to add a shim to the top bolt ( between the block and frame) and my problem cleared up.

outlaw · #6 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 03:30 PM

Hi Tim and SVM
Thanks for the input. The steering joint is perpendicular to the FW.And, you;re right, the u-joint does have a pretty good angle, but ya know what, when the car is "cold", there is absolutely NO steering binding. The addition of the "heat shield" made a huge difference, so I feel fairly certain the header heat is the culprit. I have checked the entire steering assy for binding/scraping etc, but to no avail. I could adjust out on the "heim" joint where the lower sector attaches to the frame, but as I said before, it drives great till you "slow drive" it for a period of time.

SVMCOBRA...Mine does not have the brass pillow block. I guess mine must be a little newer or something. I have a large "heim" joint instead of a brass pillow block. Have you ever had brake fluid "cook" from your master cylinders? Mine was until I put the heat shield on. Now the master cylinders are just warm to the touch after a long/hard drive. The heat shield definitely made some difference.

I really appreciate your help here guys, if you can think of anything else, please advise.

BTW, i'm in texas a few times a year. where is Pasadena and Flower Mound? I'm usually in the DFW area doing aviation stuff. Was just in Dallas for the Civil Aviation Safety Symposium a month ago. Let me know where you guys are!

later

outlaw

Sydney · #7 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 04:02 PM

Hi Outlaw,

I seem to remember that my steering linkage was quite rusty when I received it from SV. I had to soak the U joints in penetrating oil to get the rust out. Then I forced some grease in the hole in the middle of the U joints to free them up.

Maybe you could replace that U joint that's above the header with one of those nice Flaming River or Borgeson ones with the needle bearings in them.

The heat sheilds is a good idea. Which master cylinders are you using?

Sydney

Tim Brewer · #8 (**permalink**) 10-10-2004, 07:22 PM

Flower Mound is about 20 miles north of Dallas off of I-35.
Tim

outlaw · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2004, 12:47 PM

Sydney,
Never thought about the Flaming River/ Borgeson u-joints, however, it would be a somewhat major undertaking as the sector would have to be modified extensively. As you know, the u-joint is welded to either end. That joint would have to be cut out and the new one welded in I suppose. After reading your mail I revisited my u-joint and it is not rusty and does not appear to be binding. I swear its the heat from the headers. As stated earlier, when I installed the heat shield I had a huge difference and it takes much longer for the "binding" to begin. Cold operation is perfect, its only after slow operation that the binding appears.
I may have to look at the Flamng River u-joint. Thanks for the tip!

Tim B. I may have to get in touch with you next time i'm in DFW, since Flower Mound isn't that far north.Thanks for the help.

outlaw

SVMCOBRA · #10 (**permalink**) 10-12-2004, 03:44 PM

Outlaw, Pasadena is right outside off Houston. I have not had any problems with brake fluid boiling out. After looking at your pic's I wonder if the bracket that is bolted to the top of the foot box that supports you column might be the problem. If I remember right that bracket is bolted to the column, could the bolts be expanding when they get hot and rubbing the steering shaft.

outlaw · #11 (**permalink**) 10-14-2004, 07:50 AM

dang ray,
you might be on to something, i never checked that. they are grade 8 bolts but i would think that would not prevent them from being affected by the laws of physics. i'll check that today. on a guess, i don't think the bolts pennetrate the "column" so much that they would be that close to the inner shaft, but its certainly worth a look. thats what i like about this site, smart people sharing information.

i'll get back with you on that........
\
outlaw

Michael C Henry · #12 (**permalink**) 10-15-2004, 10:06 AM

I had 3/4" round shafts with the Borg joints . The joints were connected to the shafts with a countersunk 5/16" bolt through joint and shaft. A small amount of slop. Everything was lock-tited together. When the car was appart I could get to the adapter from steering sector and to the first joint off with a little help from a torch. I converted mine to polished SS 3/4" round with 36 spline .I had to order two 3/4" polished SS splined shafts ( 6" and about 23) two polished SS U-joints and and a polished SS 3/4" 48 intrenaly spilned adapter .The longer shaft I had to get a machinist to extend the splines about 3/8" on one end. I cut the shorter shaft into two pieces, 2" and 4 " . The 2" piece went in to a straight adapter 3/4" 48 spline internal one end and interanally drilled 3/4' smooth to the middle of the length..I counter bore the smooth end of the adapter and had the splined two inch piece welded into it with one inch smooth inside and the splined end protruding one inch== 3/4" round 48 internal spilned to 3/4" round 36 spline external adapter that went over the 48 splined secter shaft and into the first universlal joint . I cut 4" off my steering colum shaft . The newly cut end of the steeringcolumn and the 4"remainder of the cut splined 3/4" 36 polished SS shaft I turned down to points for welding solid ,absolute penatration.I allready had a functioning steering I just had to recreate it in polished SS.Still cost five hundered dollars and took the better part of five weeks. I had a pro welder do the Tiging. I did the cuttung and turning.Not to mention the calling ,orderering paying , crawling ,shoving , planning,prying ,scraping ,sweating.waiting, and so on.

outlaw · #13 (**permalink**) 10-19-2004, 06:35 AM

Mike,
sounds like you completely reengineered the steering assembly.
i'm sure it looks outstanding. it certainly appears to be a huge amount of work but i bet the end result is spectacular. will check your gallery for pics. this certainly may be an option.
thanks for the information.

outlaw

maxrpm · #14 (**permalink**) 10-19-2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SVMCOBRA

Hey Outlaw, I had a slight binding problem with mine. Check the brass pillow block that supports your column close to the steering rack. I had to add a shim to the top bolt ( between the block and frame) and my problem cleared up.

^^Here's the problem right here.^^ Shoot some WD-40 on it and you'll see a big difference instantly. Then do like SVM says.