Engine install advice wanted from CSX and KMP owners

[Power Surge]

Well, if all goes according to plan, I might actually be dropping the motor into CSX4241 sometime this week. Since I bought the car minus the motor, I'd love to hear some advice on putting in from fellow CSX owners, as well as Kirkham owners (since basically the same car). The trans and bellhousing are in the car itself. I'd be dropping the motor in, with the clutch on the flywheel. I've got the Lakewood bell if that matters.

Just looking for some advice on the actual procedure to drop it in. What to do, what not to do, what to not have bolted on the motor, etc. Pictures would be great as well.

Thanks!!

[Brent Mills]

Here are some thoughts.

• Remove the tranny and attach everything to the engine to make sure that it all ligns up correctly.
• I personally would install the engine with the bellhousing attached. You'll need to remove the puke tank from the firewall if you have one.
• Lower the engine in.
• Loosly mount the engine for a little wiggle capabilities...probably should leave the engine attached to the hoist and have it sort of float so to speak.
• Now slide tranny into place. Fairly easy like this.
• Button her up.
  

I think you'll definately find it easier to get the tranny attached whith the belhousing already on the engine. Fun project, eh?

[Power Surge]

Thanks Brent. My bell is already all mounted on the trans, which is in the car already. That's how the previous owner pulled the original motor. So I'll be installing the motor with just the clutch on the flywheel.

I did run into a small snag though... I am missing one of the block dowels on my motor. Will have to try to find one somewhere.

[ST]

To do it right you'll have to index the bellhousing to the new motor.

So, first remove the trans and the bellhousing and seperate the two. Mount and index the bell to the motor and install them together. Then install the trans.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ST

To do it right you'll have to index the bellhousing to the new motor.

So, first remove the trans and the bellhousing and seperate the two. Mount and index the bell to the motor and install them together. Then install the trans.

Why is it that you can bolt an OEM bellhousing to any motor, but you have to index the Lakewood on every block it's installed on? I can understand having to do it the first time out of the box due to production tolerances, but once it's been indexed to one FE motor, shouldn't it be good for any motor? If not, then that would mean you'd have to index ANY bellhousing, OEM or not. Just trying to make sense of it and not have to make more work for myself if it's not needed.

[Brent Mills]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Why is it that you can bolt an OEM bellhousing to any motor, but you have to index the Lakewood on every block it's installed on? I can understand having to do it the first time out of the box due to production tolerances, but once it's been indexed to one FE motor, shouldn't it be good for any motor? If not, then that would mean you'd have to index ANY bellhousing, OEM or not. Just trying to make sense of it and not have to make more work for myself if it's not needed.

I'm pretty sure it's that the engines themselves may have some differences....You may be able to mount an OEM belhousing to any block, but I'm guessing that the folks in the know check and adjust accordingly. Better safe than sorry later, and it really probably will be easier to install the engine with the belhousing attached and then just slip the end of the tranny in.

[ST]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Just looking for some advice on the actual procedure to drop it in. What to do, what not to do, what to not have bolted on the motor, etc. Pictures would be great as well.

Thanks!!

You asked and I answered.
Feel free to do it your way if you like.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ST

You asked and I answered.
Feel free to do it your way if you like.

Don't get me wrong, I appreicated it! I have just always wondered about the bellhousing thing. If it's been set up for one FE motor, why won't it work on another, when you can use an OEM bellhousing on any motor with no indexing.

[Three Peaks]

I'm with Brent here. With the bellhousing attached to the tranny already in the car and lowering the engine in you're setting yourself up for a ton of problems.
The tranny input shaft will need to line up with the clutch and then the pilot bearing at the same time you're trying to line up the bellhousing to the engine. Then you have to try to get the bolts in the engine block through the bellhousing in very tight quarters in the engine bay. Makes my head hurt just thinking about it.
The easiest way is to bolt the bellhousing to the engine and even the tranny outside the car if possible, raise the front of the car enough to drop it all in in one shot, and carefully settle it into place. Of course, you'll need a bit of help for the initial install, but it will go much easier once it's all in the engine bay.

You said the original owner pulled the motor that way? I'm betting he didn't install it that way. Pulling one apart isn't the same as putting it together, but I guess you'll find out soon enough. Good luck with your project.

[Brent Mills]

Sal, I wish I had pics. Sorry.

It may seem like a fair bit of work to pull that tranny right now, but believe me...Trying to get that thing installed the way it is just may be a much much more difficult task. In the long run you'll save yourself a lot of frustration by pulling it and taking the time to ensure the belhousing is properly aligned. With the belhousing already attached, dropping the engine in is super easy and you don't have to try and jockey the engine and transmission around while trying to mate them....I've been in situations where mating the belhousing/tranny to the engine was like getting a grizzly and a polar bear together....DNA has proven it can work, but I'm sure plenty have died trying.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Brent Mills

Sal, I wish I had pics. Sorry.

It may seem like a fair bit of work to pull that tranny right now, but believe me...Trying to get that thing installed the way it is just may be a much much more difficult task. In the long run you'll save yourself a lot of frustration by pulling it and taking the time to ensure the belhousing is properly aligned. With the belhousing already attached, dropping the engine in is super easy and you don't have to try and jockey the engine and transmission around while trying to mate them....I've been in situations where mating the belhousing/tranny to the engine was like getting a grizzly and a polar bear together....DNA has proven it can work, but I'm sure plenty have died trying.

If I do pull the Lakewood bell off the trans, will I need to chop the bottom section off like some people do to install it with the bell on the motor?

[Excaliber]

I would certainly 'chop off' the bottom of the bell housing, no doubt about that!

[RedSnake351]

Sal, a friend of mine installed the engine, belhousing and trans all outside the car like it was suggested then dropping it into his Kirkham. He was very careful with all of the install and thought everything was all lined up but still had a bunch of problems, including the input shaft originally being too long. He thought he had everything dialed in and since had to pull his trans two more times with seal and bearing problems.
He is hoping this coming week will be the end of his nightmare since London Spring Fest is approaching very quickly.
The alignment must be super critical in order not to have future problems from what I've seen in his situation.
Ralph

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by RedSnake351

Sal, a friend of mine installed the engine, belhousing and trans all outside the car like it was suggested then dropping it into his Kirkham. He was very careful with all of the install and thought everything was all lined up but still had a bunch of problems, including the input shaft originally being too long. He thought he had everything dialed in and since had to pull his trans two more times with seal and bearing problems.
He is hoping this coming week will be the end of his nightmare since London Spring Fest is approaching very quickly.
The alignment must be super critical in order not to have future problems from what I've seen in his situation.
Ralph

My car was already a finished running car. That's why I really don't want to disturb the trans which already in the car all hooked up. But I'm taking everyone's different advice in mind, and will decide how I want to tackle it.

Still would love to hear more feedback.

[Specialk]

Sal,

The reason the bottom of the bell housing is chopped off is so it doesn't hang below the frame rails.

I install the engines without removing anything from the car. Removing the hood helps, but it's not necessary. The puke tank can stay in, just be careful. There is no way I would ever leave the transmission in place. It would probably take 15 minutes to remove the transmission, and I don't think you'll save 15 minutes by leaving it in. I think it would be tough getting the bellhousing over the 3" crossmember, but at the same time getting the input shaft perfectly into the clutch disk. I can usually get an engine and tranny in the car in under an hour if I can get the right guys helping me and this is with the engine and trans installed separately.

The engine in your car needs to be leveled side to side to make sure it's not in the car cocked.

I also found that it is easiest to install the rubber motor mounts on the chassis with the nuts on the studs a couple turns, then install the two mount to block bolts.

Anymore questions, ask away. I know who I'm going to ask when I need to find a Lightning motor!

[cobred]

Sal, ill be going to HRE Saturday if weather is good and ill ask Billy how he does it. Im sure he has done a few on previously finished cars and will know what can stay on and what must come off. You can always call him but I know he doesnt like calls during the work week.

[Power Surge]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I put the motor in today. Being the stubborn bastard that I am, I did it the way I planned to do it. It really wasn't all that bad...

A few observations in the install..

- the alternator did not need to be off the motor, but it sure would have made life easier.

- you can't drop the motor in with both mount on the chassis, because the pan is wider than the mounts.

- my bellhousing was not cut, but it sure HAS been bashed on something at one point. I will be cutting it down in the car once I can get it up on the lift.

- I need to figure out something different for my fuel line from the pump to the carb. It doesn't clear the steering shaft.

- I have no idea how the heck I'm going to install the driver's side header bolts or motor mount bolts. There's hardly any room on that side.

Basically I just jacked the trans up as far as it went, then slowly dropped the motor in place, while making sure the Lakewood block plate was over the crossmember. Yes, it was a close call, but it didn't see any harder than doing it any other way.

Oh, and the funniest thing was, with no engine in the car, it looks like there is tons of extra room in there. But once the motor is in the bay, it quickly fills up!!

Thanks to everyone, and I'm sure I'll have lots of other questions now that I have to figure out where everything hooks up to!

[Igofastr]

Sal,

Did you get everything hooked up? Sounds like you put your motor in about the same time I did KMP357. Not a lot of room, but it all fits. Even the drivers side headers...and I really had my doubts. I figured out that if I didn't actually bolt anything down first, I could slip them all in, and then position them. I almost took the steering shaft off, but that wasn't really necessary.

I haven't fired it up yet, as I just finished welding on the sidepipe brackets and tabs that hold the headers to the collectors. Nobody would sell me the freakin' brackets, so I spent half a day fabbing them up myself. A silly way to have to spend my scant spare time. Anyway, I'll send everything off to be ceramic coated this week...as soon as they get back...varrooom.

[Power Surge]

Ron, my car is very close to being started up. The motor is in, and I have been frantically working on the detail work in the engine bay. It's very close now.

I'd love to see pics of KMP357 when you get her up and running. I love/miss that car!!

[Igofastr]

Sal,

I'll fire off some pics as soon as she's running. I still have to mount the carb linkage, plumb the fluid lines, and install the MSD. I plan on doing all that while everything is off at the coaters.

I wish it hadn't taken so long (don't we all), but work has been crazy. I've been trying to sneak in some quality garrage time on the occasional saturday, and early in the am before I go to work (ie 5:30 to 6:45 am).

I'd like to see some pic of the CSX once she hits the road. And, I'm curious what changes you made in your quest for originality? I may do some of the same, but I'm not sure that I'm willing to give up the CNC'd suspension just yet.