Turbo's inline with side pipes ?

[FUNFER2]

I can't think of how a guy could hook up turbo's inline, with headers & side pipes. I don't think it's possible but, any ideas ?

Under the car exhaust is simple.

[xlr8or]

Use shorty header install backward so the turbo is up toward front of them motor??

[1ntCobra]

It has been done before. Brian Angliss was involved. The car was called 'COB 1'. It was however built on a a longer and wider cobra chassis that was originally made for a movie studio. There is information and a picture of the car in Trevor Legate's latest book, but not an underhood picture. There was also an article about it a bunch of years ago in the SAAC magazine.

[ByronRACE]

There's no magic involved in doing what you describe. I had it all modeled up on how I was going to do this exact thing on my car, but decided not to because I didn't like relying on an electric pump to return the oil to the pan and didn't want the additional plumbing complication. It took about 3X the tube length to get the job done than what I opted for (see my photos for details). Additionally, the heat shielding and bulk and such didn't look that great once I had it all laid out...and I didn't need more power than what I could get with a single V7-JT supercharger. So...I took the easier way out and the result was quite tidy.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

I am in the process of a twin turbo build.....pretty far along, actually, will see if I can post some pics this weekend....

[FUNFER2]

BryonRACE- looks like some deep thoughts with your pluming. Can you share with us your engine, charger, pluming ect. ?

Have you had it on the dyno ?

Earls.....- yes, please explain your build and shoot some pics !

Shelby's "snake" had twin Paxton blowers. They needed a different hood to fit. Turbos are so called, "free hp" because they run off the exhaust. The centrifugal uses the crank therefore, loosing hp but, the supercharger hp gain well,....makes up for the loss.

I'm sure I don't have room under the hood for the, carb. blow in supercharger.
I'm looking forward to hearing from you guys that use either turbos or superchargers.

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

BryonRACE- looks like some deep thoughts with your pluming. Can you share with us your engine, charger, pluming ect. ?

Have you had it on the dyno ?

I had it on the dyno initially. It made 760/760 at 5500rpm at the rear wheels at 14lbs of boost with 19deg total advance and a 10:1 AFR. Dynojet 248. I shut it off when the air temps exceeded 200deg F because this engine runs on 91 octane pump fuel, and there was simply no point risking detonation with a few hundred miles on the engine when the power to the ground exceeded what I could use. Peak torque was right near 5500rpm so peak power would be around 7000 or so. Judging by the shape of the curve, 800rwhp was in the bank; which was the goal. Air temps were higher than expected, however, and I didn't like that...so I pullied it down to 80/40.

On the 80/40 pulley I never put it back on the dyno (yet) because the WSCB came around and I was more interested in driving the car. Since I have onboard instrumentation that tells me everything the dyno does, and more...I really havn't had the need. Right now peak torque is at 5400rpm. Peak power is at 7200rpm. Torque is 710ft-lbs at 5400rpm, power is 820hp at 7200. Peak boost is 12psi at 7200 with air temps at about 180deg F on a 70deg day.

Engine is a 7.88:1 compression 385 series BBF based on a production block, production forged 429 industrial crank, 4-bolt billet mains on 2,3,4, solid roller valvetrain, ported blue thunder heads, 5.0L Factory Ford Mustang fuel injection (modified, calibrated with Autologic myself). 83lb/hr injectors, weldon fuel system. I built all the EFI stuff (intake mods, intake hat, fuel rails, etc). I also built all the blower stuff (front drive, sprockets, tensioner, etc). Blower is a vortech V7-JT reverse rotation unit capable of 1600+cfm. No intercooler. Mass-Air based, blow-through. The mass air meter and bypass valve are in the fender. It all fits under hood. Fresh air comes through a viper naca duct frenched into the nose. Transmission is factory Dodge Viper 6spd (t56). Adapter was early or prototype, but is now available through multiple sources (Modern Driveline is who I work with).

There's no question in my mind that I could put the 80/30 cog back on it, throw some Torco Accelerator in the tank, put 26deg advance in it, and break 900hp at the tires (well over 1000fwhp). Right now it's tuned 10:1 AFR, 19deg total advance and has never seen anything other than 91 octane pump gas without a single ping...ever. Considering I still can't drive it as well as my old '93 Cobra that had half the power, I don't need more.

There's a pile of pictures on www.racesystems.com/cobra if you want to see all the bits and pieces as I constructed this car since 2001 or so...

In an attempt to try to add something useful and on-topic to the thread, one of the reasons the turbo option was less attractive (I considered twins on the sidepipes and a single mounted much like my blower is now) was air temps. Turbo impellers spin a lot faster than centrifugal superchargers, and as such will require an intercooler at a much lower boost level unless you're running race fuels that can tolerate higher air temps. My car is strictly a pump gas machine; it burns enough fuel that at $10/gallon, it would take the joy out of driving it around on the street...so that wasn't an option. Once you mount an intercooler in the front of a cobra, the plumbing becomes that much more complicated in an already very crowded engine bay. It was too much challenge, imho. I still have the option of adding an intercooler to my existing setup if I so choose, but honestly don't see that happening...all it would do is add power when what I need to add is driver skill and familiarity. Additionally, if you've ever been to the NMRA drags or any other event where ford powered turbo combos are going down the track in front of you, the turbo kills the muscle car sound. A single turbo kills it almost completely (sounds like a vacuum cleaner, not a cobra, near zero exhaust note) and twins are only marginally louder. So, if you want the sonic experience, a turbo might ruin that for you. If you do run twin turbos, run straight pipes after them unless you intend to have the ultimate stealth-mode cobra. I think a set of T60's with muffled exhaust would end up sounding like nothing more than the worlds most powerful vacuum cleaner going down the track. Cool, yes...but it will be a way different sounding machine so expect it.

If you do go turbos and a cooler, consider an air/water unit built into the intake manifold. I have visions of something with twin 03 Cobra / Lightning cores built into the manifold (one would be enough to 700rwhp or so, but two is even better), a water pump, and a front mounted (smaller) air/water heat exchanger. That would be a real nice setup and would keep your air plumbing shorter and easier to route. Water plumbing is considerably smaller than air. Fabricating that intake would be a real project...but the end result sure would be cool.


Byron

[FUNFER2]

What about the heat produced ? I know the turbos can be heat monsters.

With the blow in charger, is their enough room under the hood or did you have to make the scoop taller ? I don't think the 385 series like you have is any bigger than the 427 or 428 ?

I do have the higher Vic Jr. air gap intake than the RPM manifold.

On Shelbys supersnake, the scoop and hood is taller.

What computer will you use ?

And, do you have a projected cost ?

[ByronRACE]

Due to the intake hat design, I'm able to run an Edelbrock Victor intake, a big block, and fit it all under the hood *below* the scoop line. You could remove the scoop from the hood and it would still clear.

If you used a Performer style intake, you could concave the hood at least an inch, if not two...and it'd still clear.

It was very easy to package.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Heres a few............................

[FUNFER2]

That's some great work !
How do you have enough room between them and the body ?

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Its a very TIGHT fit.........in fact I am going to have to modify my side louvers to get them to fit or do yet "another" mod on the exhaust pipe