Hydraulic clutch is out again, help

MaSnaka · #1 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 12:17 PM

Well the clutch has been working fine but my hydraulics has been nothing but a problem, well about every 2000 miles or so anyway. I have the Howe Racing master cylinder with a hydraulic throwout bearing. I have had to replace/rebuild this thing and bleed it 1,2,3, this will be the 4th time in the last few years. Last rebuild was 6 months ago, maybe 1500 miles. The fluid (non silicone)was flushed/changed, new O-ring plunger and return spring. Sleeved the lines with a heat shield. The cause seems to be deris getting between the o-ring and the cylinder breaking or wearing out the seal. I had to move the resevoir around because of some engine work back in Dec. and must have disturbed some crud. A month ago I had to move it around again and now this problem returns. Fortunately I ordered two sets back in Dec. so I have the parts now. Does anyone have similar problems with this Howe Racing assembly? I have a very competent shop doing the work (they came highly recommended by more than one enthusiast) and I am just perplexed everytime this thing goes out. Seems very touchy and delicate. Shouldn't it be somewhat bullet proof?

John

trularin · #2 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 12:51 PM

Why not go to the external slave cylinder and get rid of the problem?

PANAVIA · #3 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 12:52 PM

Why not go to the external slave cylinder and get rid of the problem?

Clois Harlan · #4 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 01:46 PM

You know my Hyd MC is a B _tch to bleed to but unless I have had to take it out for another reason I have had absolutely no problems with it at all. I am running a McLeod MC.

Clois

CobraEd · #5 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 01:48 PM

Not to be overly simple about it, but why not go with a cable. They last forever and are a snap to adjust.

/

MaSnaka · #6 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 02:32 PM

After re-reading my post I may have not made it clear that the hyd throw out bearing has been flawless. It's the master cylinder i have had all the trouble with. I know about other clutch systems, mainly I just want to know if anyone else has this same trouble with the Howe. Thanks for your replies.

John

Eljaro · #7 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 03:43 PM

I am using a Girling cast iron unit. No problem in 10 years.

jdean · #8 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 04:04 PM

I pulled my hair out over trying to bleed a new Wilwood MC...turns out it was bad. Once replaced it was all good. You might try replacing what you have...pretty cheap solution compared with a lot of things that could go wrong. For most folks the MC lasts for years trouble free.

Tommy · #9 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

After re-reading my post I may have not made it clear that the hyd throw out bearing has been flawless. It's the master cylinder i have had all the trouble with. I know about other clutch systems, mainly I just want to know if anyone else has this same trouble with the Howe. Thanks for your replies.

John

I have no experience with the Howe, but it wouldn't take too many times like yours for me to switch to a different supplier. I use CNC brand (http://www.cncbrakes.com/prodgroup.asp?grp=mc ) master cylinders for brakes and clutch with good success. I use the steel ones, but they make aluminum too.

jdean · #10 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 06:50 PM

That's the point I was trying to make....whomever the manufacturer, if you have a problematic MC it is not expensive to replace vs. time, frustration of dealing with it. I think the Wilwoods are $70.00, Howe is a bit less depending on model.

trularin · #11 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 07:35 PM

Tiltons are not bad, I haven't had problems with the MC, but the adjustment rods are a pain in the arse.

Ibr8k4vetts · #12 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trularin

Tiltons are not bad, I haven't had problems with the MC, but the adjustment rods are a pain in the arse.

Try the brake balance bar in a R.U.C.C.

MaSnaka · #13 (**permalink**) 07-21-2009, 09:59 PM

Thanks guys. I think a change may be in order. It only makes sense at this point. I appreciate the advice. It's not about the money, it's about dependability and performance.

John

Curt C. · #14 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 01:27 PM

I had a similar problem years back. Turns out that the push rod was not completely lined up right with the which would cause some minor side loading in the cylinder. After a period of time, aluminum would flake off into the fluid and blow the seals. Check you alignment while you have it apart.

Edit: My vehicle too is a CR. The firewall is not very flat where pedal mates up to the cylinder. Exactly my problem

MaSnaka · #15 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 02:57 PM

Curt C.,

The first time about 6 years ago that was exactly the problem. The push rod was not aligned and wore the cylinder sides out of round. That was corrected and the MC body was replaced. Since then it has been rubber debris and cooked fluid. I just got the car to the shop this afternoon and we will see what it is this time. I'll follow up on the discovery and the outcome on this thread later.

John

Tommy · #16 (**permalink**) 07-22-2009, 04:31 PM

The out of round wear problem mentioned above is why I replaced my aluminum master cylinders with steel ones. So far, so good.

Roscoe · #17 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009, 05:40 AM

I'm using the Afco Racing torpedo MC's with a Tilton Hydraulic throw out bearing. In for about 10 years with no problems. Early on I had problems with bleeding but I finally wised up and got a pressure bleeding cap for my reservoirs. Now I simply pump a little air in and the line is bled. Easy, clean one man job.

Roscoe

Tom Cimino · #18 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009, 06:11 AM

U.S. Brake makes master cylinders with a stainless steel sleeve. Available from Summit. Price is comparable to Tilton.

Trueoo7 · #19 (**permalink**) 07-23-2009, 11:56 AM

UH.... not that I can find. All that comes up is brake calipers on Summit.

Tom Cimino · #20 (**permalink**) 07-24-2009, 11:10 AM

Just talked with rep from Summit. They can get anything from the U.S. Brake catalog. U.S. Brake makes a modular MC with stainless sleeve Part # 2011-1551. It's 3/4" dia.

U.S. brake is a part of Afco. Go to their website and order a free catalog. That will tell you what's available, and you'll have the part number needed if you order from Summit.