Roush 402IR 8 stack $44k ?

[madmaxx]

nobody know the difference between the sr and the srx, looks like same engine for $1k cheaper. maybe a different block

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

nobody know the difference between the sr and the srx, looks like same engine for $1k cheaper. maybe a different block

heads, carb, cam.

sr is what used to be called sr+tw.

[Keithc8]

I price engine to all sorts of car builders and what I have found is that most of them are looking for some cheap deal. I have done it with a lot of the Superformance and Backdraft dealers. They want cheap engines so that they can offer a complete turn key car cheap. The main reason they deal with Roush is because he gives them about a 1000.00 per engine give or take a little. I have also had several of them tell me that they did not get their money.
Cashburn and other can say what they want but they are in to make money like everyone else. If they did not get a nice commission of the Roush engine thay would not mess with them most of the time. There are a lot of engine builders that offer warranties and any warranty is as good as the paper it is written on. The warranty deal is bunch of bull **** most of the time anyway when you read the fine print. The ones that the insurance companies sell are a joke and do not cover much but is what most use when they advertise a warranty.
I have a lot of these car dealers, builders want me to build an inferior product so that they could make more of the engine. I will not do it and have my name associatted with it so it is hard to deal with a lot of them. I know some of the prices they are paying for some of this stuff and it is not much engine at that price. We fall some where in the middle on these deals as far as price and offer some lower to higher price engines.
I even sold the people running the Roush deal a lot of the parts when they were starting their engine programs from scratch. They use the same parts as most other people and do not even do their heads in house on these engines, it is a crate engine like everyone else does with some fancy parts on the outside.
The engine business is one of the toughest busineses to ever be in. You complete with people working out of their garage that have no investment in anything and use other peoples machinesne to people that will flat out lie about what they are doing for you. Plus everyone knows everything about engine building just ask them. Really gotten just crazy.

Later, Keith

[fordracing65]

I would never touch a Roush product, pass some of the discounts on to the consumer, there all the same parts, why charged more, hate to see people raked over the coals.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

The main reason they deal with Roush is because he gives them about a 1000.00 per engine give or take a little. I have also had several of them tell me that they did not get their money.

Later, Keith

You keep making this claim, but it is false. There is no 1k commission on a crate 427R, not even close. What you fail to realize is the Roush business model is to sell through distributors that in some cases hold an inventory. In that type of business there has to be a margin for it to work. They have created a National and International brand. I see the Roush display at many high end car shows throughout the country ... never seen a Keith Craft display so I don't know?

There is a value there, some don't value it. That's fine, there's probably 2,000+ engine builders in the USA to choose from.

When a customer buys an installed engine, with all the other bits, that margin is gone anyway. We have to make deals to close sales.

All you need to do is line by line it and I'm happy to let it rest... but instead we can continue the "same parts, fake warranty, paying for the name chant".

[patrickt]

OK, forget Kirkham and forget ERA, is anyone else actually making any serious money off this Cobra hobby of ours? If I believed everything I read on this forum it seems that there is no real margin in anything.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patrickt

is anyone else actually making any serious money off this Cobra hobby of ours? If I believed everything I read on this forum it seems that there is no real margin in anything.

don't kid yourself.... They all must be making a killing 'cos it's costing us all a fortune.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

don't kid yourself.... They all must be making a killing 'cos it's costing us all a fortune.

Yep, I think you're right. With my cronies, the ones that are making the most dough are still constantly telling you that they're barely squeaking by....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, forget Kirkham and forget ERA, is anyone else actually making any serious money off this Cobra hobby of ours? If I believed everything I read on this forum it seems that there is no real margin in anything.

Patrick, you way too focused on money. Money is the root of all evil. Money doesn't buy happiness. And no doubt you've heard of Herzberg's Dual Structure Theory and Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. I don't remember money being mentioned prominently.

[madmaxx]

KC is correct, warranties are fuking useless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read the fine print ding dongs not what someone thinks, feels, remembers.

[Keithc8]

Let me say this the Roush/Yates engine race program is a completely different deal involving different people. They have assembled some real good engine guys there and you will pay for a nice race engine but they make good power. R&D cost money and so does the equipment to do it on that level.
The crate engine deal is just that. A marketing guy saw a nich and a name he could use and put this program together. I would probably do the same as long as they did not mess up my name.
If anyone wants to have their own engine business and there seems to be a lot of people on here that do, give me a call and I will fix you up. You can then build what you want at the price you want. Just takes about a 2 million investment to have the right equipment, inventory and the right people to do the job. I would even stay on and help.

Thanks, Keith Craft

[fordracing65]

Your the man Kieth, the Roush Yates boys are good ol southern racers like yourself, about power and quality, keep building great engines, we can only wish the posers knew who they were.

[Cashburn]

While we are covering all bases the tag gives oil pressure... Not temp?

[madmaxx]

Tin man

You dont need advice as your appear to be perfect balanced but dont feel the need to explain anything to all us Monday Morning quarterbacks. Heck I did the exact same thing you did, only difference is my pockets were not as deep as yours. You keep being nice and dont start bad mouthing something or someone you may actually make me feel guilty, LOL!!!

[Keithc8]

John,
You are correct about the marketing aspect. We have pretty much been involved in several different events, grass roots racing, Cobra events, given engines to the Ohio Cobra club for their raffle car when Roush would not, NHRA National record holders with FE, 302, 351W and 351C Ford engine in Stock and Super Stock, supplied engines to probably more than 300 cobras to this point plus many early and late model Mustangs.
We have not spent as much on marketing because we are engine guys and not marketing guys. The Roush crate engine program was set up by a marketing guy and not an engine guy. He bragged to me several times about what he had done with the Roush name and such.
Real Ford guys know us and most hard core Cobra guys know us. The new comer and the ones that do not do their research may not. The small block stuff is pretty easy but the FE is a differnet animal and I do not think there is anybody that has build more of them than us or done as many FE heads and blocks as us. We do about 70 to 80 complete FE engine a year, not counting short blocks, heads, crank kits and related parts.
We do not do as much as we did 5 years ago. Some by design, some because of the market. We are at a point where we do not have to do an engine for everyone, some you are better to not deal with. Every customer is different, their needs and wants vary from customer to customer. They may think they want one thing but we know when in the car and running that they would not be happy with that combination. It is part of our job to figure these things out. Every engine build has a customers name on it and is built for him. We do not do cookie cutter engines that are setting on the shelf then pulled out and shipped. We do have combinations that we know that work but we make sure it is right for the customer. We also have engines that we do for certain car builders and racers that are the same for pricing reasons and rules that the sactioning body may have.
I hope that things get handled on your car. We have had problems on engines in past, no one is perfect but we try to handle them to a happy ending.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[Dimis]

Tin-man,

It's a game of each to his own...

What you've gone and built is/will be a ripper car, a top of the line monster.
You have every right to be proud of your car & you need not justify to anyone why you chose what you chose... It's all quality!

I'm just not brave enough to deal with your engine supplier.
I worry about products that are "over marketed".
I like it when products speak for themselves and don't need guys in flashy suits to flog them off.
For me its about the craft & art.
I prefer real value vs it's perceived value.

Plus Im jealous I can't afford it

[Dimis]

Sorry... Double post :-(