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Old 03-29-2019, 08:43 AM
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Default Oil temp gauge installed

Just installed some new SpeedHut gauges. A new gauge I now have is oil temp. It is plugged into the side port on the Canton pan. I've noticed that when I'm driving the oil temp gauge is pegged cold, but when I stop, it will climb up to the correct temp. I'm thinking that since the pan is down in the air steam, the sensor is getting cooled by the passing air. Do I just need to insulate the sensor? Wrap it with heat shielding?
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:30 AM
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Just installed some new SpeedHut gauges. A new gauge I now have is oil temp. It is plugged into the side port on the Canton pan. I've noticed that when I'm driving the oil temp gauge is pegged cold, but when I stop, it will climb up to the correct temp. I'm thinking that since the pan is down in the air steam, the sensor is getting cooled by the passing air. Do I just need to insulate the sensor? Wrap it with heat shielding?
Your situation seems baffling to me.

I have a VDO temp gauge and sensor, and my readings don't vary whether I'm driving or stopped. As far as I know, the portion of the sender that actually takes the reading is inside the oil pan and not exposed to air flow.

Looking at the SpeedHut sender it looks like it would be totally immersed as well:



I suspect there's something else going on. Does the wire have a solid connection to the sender? Could it be moving around or grounding against something while the vehicle is in motion, but not when stopped? Looking at the impedance / temperature chart, zero impedance (e.g. grounded) would display cold on the gauge.

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Old 03-29-2019, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasdoc View Post
Just installed some new SpeedHut gauges. A new gauge I now have is oil temp. It is plugged into the side port on the Canton pan. I've noticed that when I'm driving the oil temp gauge is pegged cold, but when I stop, it will climb up to the correct temp. I'm thinking that since the pan is down in the air steam, the sensor is getting cooled by the passing air. Do I just need to insulate the sensor? Wrap it with heat shielding?
Just curious, when you are stopped and the gauge starts reading, is that only when/while the brake pedal is depressed? If so, maybe electrical wiring?

Good luck...Brent
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Old 03-29-2019, 02:50 PM
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I think the sending unit is getting uncovered during the run. There is quite a bit of oil circulating when an engine is running. The oil level in the pan drops.

Is there a place to mount it lower on the pan?

John
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Old 03-29-2019, 03:06 PM
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I have a FE and mine rarely show anything. Unless it's 100 out side and I'm dogging it
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:29 PM
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Make sure the sender reaches the oil, mine did that years ago and the builder had the sender to far back in the reducers for it to get in the oil bath.
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Texasdoc View Post
Just installed some new SpeedHut gauges. A new gauge I now have is oil temp. It is plugged into the side port on the Canton pan. I've noticed that when I'm driving the oil temp gauge is pegged cold, but when I stop, it will climb up to the correct temp. I'm thinking that since the pan is down in the air steam, the sensor is getting cooled by the passing air. Do I just need to insulate the sensor? Wrap it with heat shielding?
Which Canton pan are you using? This is Canton's 15-680 9 quart pan, and the sender bung is much higher than the bung on my pan. I suppose it could become exposed if the oil level wasn't high enough and oil wasn't draining back fast enough.



https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...-race-pan.html


Here's my pan, you can see the sender bung low on the front driver's side:

https://goo.gl/photos/LV32eSaJ4uwCyRWY9
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Last edited by cycleguy55; 03-30-2019 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:01 PM
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My plan looks almost exactly like that one but it is gold-ish in color and is only advertised as a 7 qt pan.Model 15-680s. 6 qts almost comes up to the top of the kick out. Electrical seems good. No change with brake application.

My sender looks similar to that one but is not as long and has a 1/4 to 3/8 npt adapter. So it is not as deep into the oil. The bung is half way up the side of the pan as seen in the above picture. I do have a high volume pump too.

So maybe the sensor is coming uncovered when driving. How high is the oil supposed to be on the pan itself? How far down from the block - center of the rotating crank? I put 6 qts of oil in it and marked the dipstick before installing the pan.

Last edited by Texasdoc; 03-30-2019 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:26 PM
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Texasdoc,

Your description of how determine oil level sounds correct.

Look at the pan makers web sight and determine capacity, ie 7 quarts. Then change oil and add the amount of oil, ie 7 quarts. Don't start the engine. Mark the dipstick.

Then start it and add enough oil to make up for oil filter and oil cooler capacity, so that the oil level comes to the mark you made on the dip stick.

With the level determined properly, you shouldn't have a problem uncovering the temp sender.

John
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:29 PM
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15-680s is listed on Canton's site as "8 qt System Capacity" - if you're filling it with 6 quarts you're low by 2 quarts. I'd add a couple of quarts and test it again - that may make quite a difference.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...-race-pan.html
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Last edited by cycleguy55; 03-30-2019 at 03:31 PM..
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
15-680s is listed on Canton's site as "8 qt System Capacity" - if you're filling it with 6 quarts you're low by 2 quarts. I'd add a couple of quarts and test it again - that may make quite a difference.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...-race-pan.html

It is weird, when I bought it, Canton advertised it as a 7 qt pan. Summit still says 7 qts. On that page you linked, Canton says 9 qts in one place and 8 qts in another. I don't know what they want.

How far down should the oil be when the motor is not running? If I can get a measurement from a known point (block pan rails or bottom of the timing cover) I can fill it to spec, then reset my oil fill mark on the dipstick.
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:31 PM
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It is weird, when I bought it, Canton advertised it as a 7 qt pan. Summit still says 7 qts. On that page you linked, Canton says 9 qts in one place and 8 qts in another. I don't know what they want.

How far down should the oil be when the motor is not running? If I can get a measurement from a known point (block pan rails or bottom of the timing cover) I can fill it to spec, then reset my oil fill mark on the dipstick.
Yes, I see the two conflicting references on system capacity. At the very least you could start with an additional quart, but I'd be inclined to reach out directly to Canton and get the answer. Phone # 203-481-9460

This is their email contact form: https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/contact-us/

Q: How far down should the oil be when the motor is not running?
A: IMO probably as high as possible, as long as the oil level clears the counterweights. I don't know what that means in terms of quarts or even inches on your dipstick - so you may be on your own there.

What I did on mine was fill it to the level of the crank scraper before I installed it, then measure the volume. After installation I added that amount of oil, inserted the dipstick and marked the level of oil. I know some people add an extra quart for a running engine, but mine already holds enough oil (about 13 litres system capacity) so I'm not worried about it.
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Old 03-30-2019, 06:02 PM
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Hi Texasdoc,

I'm using a Canton 13-600 289-302 Drag Race Eliminator double hump rear sump pan. It had to look like the stock pan for certain class racing. My oil temp is Stewart Warner. My sender is in the remote mount oil filter port. Temp is accurate and very consistent with driving conditions. If you are using a remote mount oil filter set up mount it there. Some remote mounts have a spot to drill tap and thread and some come with ports already tapped and threaded. I'm using an AN fitting coupler that is tapped for a sender in my braided line connection to the remote filter. Nick
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:06 PM
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No oil cooler. I will see if I can figure out how far the crank counter-weights go into the pan and compare the oil level. I'll just add a quart or two of oil and see what the temp sensor does. I'll give Canton a call this week as well.

I'd still like to know how much distance there is between a stock crank and the oil level set by Ford. I may just do the math/geometry - figure out how much oil so it is just short of the crank. With the high volume pump, it will probably lower the level pretty quickly once the motor starts.

If I am doing the math right, the stroke is 4”, the rod bearings are 2.3”, so the largest radius of the crank would be 3.3”. Adding a fudge factor, I could set the level at 3.5-4 inches below the crank center line about be at about the max oil level.

Last edited by Texasdoc; 03-30-2019 at 08:30 PM..
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:26 PM
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I measured my pan, just to be sure the math works. I do have a 12 x 4 x 10.5 inch sump/kick out on this pan. That confirms it is a 15-680s pan. Mine does have the scraper as seen in the pictures but does not have the windage tray.

12 x 4 x 10.5 inches translates to about 8.7 quarts. Subtract internal edge of the sump instead of the outside, plus volume taken up by the pickup and oil baffles, I think we are somewhere in the 8.3-8.5 quart range to fill the sump.

Again, the crank stroke is 4 inches, so the throw is 2. The journals are 2.3 (ish), then add a little since the counter weights are a bit longer. I’m guessing the max radius of the crank is around 3.5 inches. Since the pan is 8 inches tall, 4 inches from the block rail (and crank centerline) to the sump, filling the pan to the top of the sump (4 inch) leaves about 1/2 inch to the crank.

I’m going to use 8.5 qts as a max fill. Since I have 6 qts in there now, I’ll add 1.5 more qts and mark the dipstick “fill” mark - indicating a quart low. Then add another quart (totalling 8.5 qts) and mark a “full” mark on the dipstick.

Thoughts? I’ll still call Canton to get their input, but unless someone here has any “that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard” comments, I’ll proceed with this plan.

Last edited by Texasdoc; 03-31-2019 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
Your situation seems baffling to me.

I have a VDO temp gauge and sensor, and my readings don't vary whether I'm driving or stopped. As far as I know, the portion of the sender that actually takes the reading is inside the oil pan and not exposed to air flow.

Looking at the SpeedHut sender it looks like it would be totally immersed as well:



I suspect there's something else going on. Does the wire have a solid connection to the sender? Could it be moving around or grounding against something while the vehicle is in motion, but not when stopped? Looking at the impedance / temperature chart, zero impedance (e.g. grounded) would display cold on the gauge.

Looking at the impedance / temperature chart, zero impedance (e.g. grounded) would display HOT on the gauge.

Open circuit, (high resistance) on the sender wire would display COLD.

Gary
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:05 AM
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Looking at the impedance / temperature chart, zero impedance (e.g. grounded) would display HOT on the gauge.

Open circuit, (high resistance) on the sender wire would display COLD.

Gary
Right. I don't think it is electrical at this point. I'm pretty sure I am just too low on the oil level. When moving (RPM above idle) my HV oil pump pushes enough oil to the top of the motor so the sensor is uncovered. Therefore I am reading the temp of the air in the oil pan. When stopped at an idle, enough oil comes back down into the pan to cover the sensor so it goes back up on the gauge. I'm going to put more oil in to see how that works. If it still isn't working well, I'll start chasing electrical gremlins. It is pretty much plug and play. Each end of the supplied cable has push and click connectors.

I spoke to Canton. They said this is an 8 qt pan. Minus what would go in the filter.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:28 AM
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Back in the early 60s I had a 59 ford with a 406fe in it with an oil temp sensor in the side of the pan-------when it would get over a quart low the guage reading would drop a lot------meaning oil probably wasn't reaching the sensor when there was a lot of oil upstairs------

But-------take out the sensor, get a pan of water and thermomentor--check the ohms as temp rises on the stove and log temps/ohms---------to verify that sensor is correct-----
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:31 AM
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But-------take out the sensor, get a pan of water and thermomentor--check the ohms as temp rises on the stove and log temps/ohms---------to verify that sensor is correct-----
Good idea
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:28 PM
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Even if the sensor is uncovered at times, I wouldn't expect the "air" in the crankcase to be that much cooler if any than the oil.
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