Club Cobra GasN Exhaust  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Engine Building, Tuning, and Induction > Small Block Talk

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
December 2021
S M T W T F S
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31  

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By scootter

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2021, 04:19 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Breckenridge, MN
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 54
Send a message via AIM to Hoodabest
Not Ranked     
Default To PCV or not to PCV

If I finish the pun, I'll be hit by lightning (rightfully so). Anyway, it was suggested by another long time member to start a new thread on this subject to keep it as a specific topic of interest. I guess I'm asking what are the advantages to these examples:

- a "standard" PCV setup like a oh let's just say stock '66 mustang 289. PCV valve goes out 1 valve cover to plate under carb, opposite valve cover has vented filler cap with a hose into air cleaner.

- 289 cobra. Vented caps on front of both valve covers, hoses to puke tank on rear.

- FE with cast valve covers. A vented cap per side no PCV at all, and would that be it?

I'm guessing there's more configurations than this but, for the moment, my most pressing question is relating to the 408w being built in my engine thread. Below are pics of the valve covers I intend to use on this engine. They came with the caps and pcv shown.

The intake is an Edelbrock RPM air gap dual quad with matching carbs. I believe there is a provision for a pcv line on this setup. Is it as simple for this application as hooking up the pcv, or am I missing something. (Do I need a puke tank, etc.)
Attached Images
  
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2021, 06:28 PM
Tommy's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dadeville, AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Sold my EM.
Posts: 2,103
Not Ranked     
Default

When I built my Cheetah tribute I wanted to use C2 Corvette finned valve covers and they have no openings for anything. After much research I made my own PCV system for the usual reasons: releasing crankcase pressure to preclude oil leaks at seals, drawing clean air into the crankcase to reduce contamination of engine oil, and reduce harmful emissions into the air. I mounted a fitting into one valve cover with a baffle inside to prevent liquid oil being drawn out. I drilled a hole in the intake manifold just below the carb for a PCV valve, and connected it to the valve cover fitting with a hose. Lastly, I attached a breather to the other valve cover that was large enough for adding oil, and had a filter element to clean air being drawn through it. The key with a custom setup is to get a PCV valve suited to the engine. So far, so good.
__________________
Tommy
Cheetah tribute completed 2021 (TommysCars.Weebly.com)
Previously owned EM Cobra
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2021, 10:24 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Breckenridge, MN
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 54
Send a message via AIM to Hoodabest
Not Ranked     
Default

You should put one speck of dust somewhere on your engine and post a photo offering a prize to the first one to find it. I truly can't recall ever seeing an engine so clean. Even more impressive is the workmanship. To me it's these details that lend credibility to our choice of recreation. OK, that being said,

I was under the impression that the "P" in PCV meant positive displacement, or air going out. But where I get confused is why one side will have the one-way action of a "valve", the other side is merely vented to atmospheric equality.

My only point of reference on this is building Harley-Davidson pan and shovel head engines. They have a breather gear that is actually a hollow tube with a window cut in it that is timed with the crank position to open and release pressure at the right interval in the cycle.
However, there is an additional vent out the back of the crankcase housing that is typically left open, and only pcv'd as a "performance mod" by an obscure few.

See what I mean?

Why pcv, only to vent too? Buuuut, that seems to be extremely common, and also works well. Why?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2021, 05:59 AM
Tommy's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dadeville, AL
Cobra Make, Engine: Sold my EM.
Posts: 2,103
Not Ranked     
Default

I speak as one who has done the research but claims no expertise. Here's how I understand the system. At idle the engine produces relatively high vacuum that opens the PCV valve to suck out crankcase vapors. The filtered vent on one valve cover allows outside air to replace that being sucked out. At high RPM crankcase pressure increases and the PCV valve allows that pressure to be released into the intake for the vapors to be burned. If the pressure exceeds the flow capacity of the PCV valve, excess pressure is vented through the filtered valve cover vent. . . . So there are times when air in entering the engine through the valve cover vent, and times when vapor is exiting. ... Lastly, the PCV valve is designed to allow flow only one way to prevent a backfire in the intake from traveling back to the combustible vapors in the crankcase.

The Cobra I used to have was built with a racing setup that included catch cans for fluids. The engine vent system consisted of baffled fittings on each valve cover that were plumbed to a remote catch can with a filter vented top. It served the purpose of allowing the crankcase to vent at high RPM, but did nothing to provide clean air at lower speeds. It would accumulate 2-3 ounces of fluid after a weekend of track time. That system seemed right for a race car that would have the oil changed frequently, but not a street car.
__________________
Tommy
Cheetah tribute completed 2021 (TommysCars.Weebly.com)
Previously owned EM Cobra
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2021, 05:33 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,702
Not Ranked     
Default

I run a PCV valve on my engines, BUT I run a large (-16AN ) hose from the other cover to a Moroso Air/Oil Separator (Stef's is similar), and then uphill to the aircleaner base.
The PCV valve engine intake manifold vacuum draws fresh air into the crankcase at part throttle through the large hose. Under load, the airflow reverses, since the crankcase blowby increases, and PCV flow decreases due to lower manifold vacuum.
At wide open throttle, PCV flow is near zero, crankcase blowby is higher than part throttle, and flows out via the large hose towards the aircleaner. I don't get any oil mist on the valve covers, and no leaks from the rearmain seal etc.
__________________
Gary

Gold Certified Holden Technician

Last edited by Gaz64; 10-17-2021 at 05:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2021, 06:11 PM
Grubby's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Clayton, IN
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 838 under construction, ERA 755 sold, ERA 178 sold
Posts: 886
Not Ranked     
Default

I have always run a PCV.

For this build my engine builder is strongly against PCV. I trust his opinion and plan to go without.

My 496 FE has breathers on both valve covers.

Feedback will follow once I start putting miles on the engine.

John
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2021, 07:07 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,702
Not Ranked     
Default

For a street registered car that spends 90% of it's time at part throttle, you will get more benefit out of having a well designed system like I quoted above, versus a non-positive crankcase system, which simply allows blowby to vent to atmosphere.
A non PCV system with 2 vented filters at part throttle, instead of consuming the blowby gas, is just topping up your oil with blowby acid.

A car meant for off street racing is a completely different ballgame.
__________________
Gary

Gold Certified Holden Technician
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2021, 07:59 PM
scootter's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF #1436 514
Posts: 1,461
Not Ranked     
Default

I would run one. I didn't run one for a short period of time. Had a lot of blow by coming out of the hood at stop lights. I installed the Wagner adjustable valve. Well worth the money.One off the shelf more then likely won't work correctly.
Gaz64 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2021, 09:40 PM
SBSerpent's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: SoCal, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: BDR build #983, FRM 392
Posts: 234
Not Ranked     
Default

Here's my story.

I have a stroked 392 Ford Racing Motor with a Holley Street Avenger carb that came with the build. Breather on one valve cover and PCV on the other (stock type of PCV that you find in the parts store). Well I decided to swap out that ugly looking PCV with an aftermarket PCV that had a chromed housing and looked identical to the breather...and looked much more attractive on the valve cover. Within a couple hundred miles of driving, I began to notice a tear drop of oil at the bottom of the bell housing/engine backing plate - oil coming from the rear main seal. I swapped that 'ugly' PCV back in and tossed the chromed aftermarket PCV. Haven't had a drop of oil since.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2021, 06:31 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 191
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootter View Post
I would run one. I didn't run one for a short period of time. Had a lot of blow by coming out of the hood at stop lights. I installed the Wagner adjustable valve. Well worth the money.One off the shelf more then likely won't work correctly.
ME Wagner DF-17 plumbed to a ADD W1 V3 air/oil separator prior
to carb connection worked for me. 8" vacuum at idle, +500 cu. in.
Appears to work well for my street driving.

The ADD W1 is compact and very well made. Bottom half spins off
to empty but also has the convenience of a dipstick to check residue levels.

ADD W1 Catch Can
https://www.addw1.com/collections/oi...-configuration

ME WAGNER PCV - Has (2) circuits, "Idle" and "Cruise".
Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve – M/E Wagner Performance Products

Last edited by Unique427; 10-22-2021 at 06:33 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2021, 07:33 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Cobra Make, Engine: Lone Star with IRS, 427W with megasquirt, T56 magnum
Posts: 294
Not Ranked     
Default

There is no downside to running a PCV valve. One definite plus is the engine consuming most of it's crankcase vapors helps keep under the hood clean.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2021, 10:48 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Breckenridge, MN
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 54
Send a message via AIM to Hoodabest
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unique427 View Post
ME Wagner DF-17 plumbed to a ADD W1 V3 air/oil separator prior
to carb connection worked for me. 8" vacuum at idle, +500 cu. in.
Appears to work well for my street driving.

The ADD W1 is compact and very well made. Bottom half spins off
to empty but also has the convenience of a dipstick to check residue levels.

ADD W1 Catch Can
https://www.addw1.com/collections/oi...-configuration

ME WAGNER PCV - Has (2) circuits, "Idle" and "Cruise".
Dual Flow Adjustable PCV Valve M/E Wagner Performance Products
I looked up these parts to get a better feel for them, and that did it, that's the route I'm going with on the 408 for starters. Seriously, for all those who may wonder, they're worth a peek. ADD W1 has a good...no great- looking product, but limited info on part origin or company location. ME Wagner is out of Bear Creek, Pa. where they make their stuff in house. Thanks for the tip.

Based on Tommy's explanation of the way it works, along with everyone else's information, I now understand that a properly functioning PCV will likely solve an oil-smoke filled cab issue with Windsor #3 of the "3 Windsors" thread elsewhere on this forum. (Please bear with me for a bit, I will get some photos and update the other thread shortly)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2021, 06:32 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 191
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodabest View Post
I looked up these parts to get a better feel for them, and that did it, that's the route I'm going with on the 408 for starters. Seriously, for all those who may wonder, they're worth a peek. ADD W1 has a good...no great- looking product, but limited info on part origin or company location. ME Wagner is out of Bear Creek, Pa. where they make their stuff in house. Thanks for the tip.

Based on Tommy's explanation of the way it works, along with everyone else's information, I now understand that a properly functioning PCV will likely solve an oil-smoke filled cab issue with Windsor #3 of the "3 Windsors" thread elsewhere on this forum. (Please bear with me for a bit, I will get some photos and update the other thread shortly)
ADD W1 is located and made in Ontario, CA. since 2005.

Last edited by Unique427; 10-27-2021 at 06:36 AM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink