Canton Oil Thermostat Install - Page 2

RedBarchetta · #21 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 08:44 AM

James,

This is definitely the appropriate thread to reference Rob Frink's diverter valve with integral oil filter housing. I actually have seen his device first hand and it is top shelf stuff. But I backed-off installing it for a couple reasons (mostly, my unwillingness to re-route the lower radiator hose and replumb everything with -12AN). In hindsight, going to -12AN wasn't really necessary (desirable, but not necessary for my application). Go to -12AN if you track the car. Rob's design does result in a cleaner installation with all the AN lines below the front cross-member, but the trade-off is that you do have to manually adjust the flow vs having the thermostat do that for you. In colder weather climates, this actually may be a better option. Rob makes cool stuff and his quality is unmatched.

-Dean

bobcowan · #22 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 01:16 PM

A diverter valve has some advantages, but also has some disadvantages. A thermostat will flow about 10% of the oil through the cooler when cold. As it opens, that relationship gradually changes to 90% to the cooler, and 10% back to the engine. That allows all of the oil in the system to gradually warm up to the same temp. If it was completly close when cold, then when it opened your engine would get a big slug of cold stiff oil.

The disadvantage is that you get some cooling action all the time, and that can be bad in the winter.

A manual diverter valve is a pretty good idea, but requires some planning. If it's all the way closed, you'll get good oil heating in the winter. But you can't just open it until the engine cools down again. You would have to gradually open it as the engine is running, just like an automatic thermostat would.

I installed a billit thermostat from Earls. Simple, thought free operation.

CWizard · #23 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris

The Earls unit and the Mocal unit don't flow enough oil......

The Canton will handle a large volume of oil thru it......

It actually has a Big Rig Truck oil Thermostat inside of the housing....and works excellant.....

Morris - Could you explain the basis for your statements a bit? Like do you have flow rates for each of these units at the same pump outlet pressure? I'm not arguing with your position, just want to know more about how you got there.
Thanks,
Jerry

Morris · #24 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 08:59 PM

Jerry

If you disassemble all three of the units .... you will see how small the path ways are internally for the oil to go to the cooler and go thru the unit to get to the motor....

The passage ways on the Mocal and Earls have a relatively small section to transfer the oil in either direction and the thermostat is relatively small.....

The Canton unit is much larger in it's ability to move a larger volume of oil.....and the Thermostat is also much larger and will pass oil with out any restriction based on the size of the unit...... The pressure drop across the thermostat is about 2.5#lbs at 85#lbs of oil pressure

It's a Caltherm Thermostat used in the big Diesel's motors and not a small device......which is why it needs the larger housing that Canton uses..... so it can flow the large volume of oil

Morris · #25 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 09:07 PM

PS ..... you should clamp the housing down with two tee-bolt clamps from Canton for that size housing..........

All of the race shops sell them ..... one clamp is not strong enough.... will allow the Thermostat to move around

Morris

Jim Vander Wal · #26 (**permalink**) 03-22-2007, 10:19 PM

Dean,

Your install looks great and the comment about the multitude of connectors required is spot on. I had to buy a bunch on AN-12 pieces and still have a few leftover. I had them too long to return.

I am really pleased with my Canton T-Stat and also have the canister style filter and 3qt. Accu-Sump. The install took a special bracket and some fancy work but I am pleased with the performance. I also have Rob Frink's block adapter and had to get the fittings and line over a mechanical fuel pump; it's real tight down there.

My oil temps run at 100c +/- 5 unless it's real cold or I'm on the track then I'll see about 120c max.

Jim 1855

rob frink · #27 (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 06:28 AM

...........

spl310 · #28 (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 07:55 PM

I have an oil cooler assembly for a car that will likely never need it, but it is a factory part,so I may put it on. How well do these thermostats work? Is there a pressure drop using them? Is it just a 4 connection fit (the first one seems to have lines all over!)

DonC · #29 (**permalink**) 03-23-2007, 10:07 PM

Have had both the Canton T-stat and a 1 qt Accusump (for pre-oiling) on the 428 in my ERA since it was born 15000+ miles and two and a half years ago. Not so much as a hiccup from either and I'm very pleased with the combination.

DonC

RedBarchetta · #30 (**permalink**) 03-26-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spl310

I have an oil cooler assembly for a car that will likely never need it, but it is a factory part,so I may put it on. How well do these thermostats work? Is there a pressure drop using them? Is it just a 4 connection fit (the first one seems to have lines all over!)

I just recently strung together several days of seat time (including this morning!) and can answer all of your questions.

How well do these thermostats work? OUTSTANDING! The engine reaches operating temperature measurably faster than it used to. It's not a "five minutes and it's there" proposition, but before I had to drive for a good 15 minutes or so just to get even to 150 degrees.

Is there a pressure drop using them? JUST THE OPPOSITE! I'm seeing a good 6-7 psi more upon start-up, as there is less hose for the oil to snake through when the flow is being directed to the thermostat.

Is it just a 4 connection (the first one seems to have lines all over!)?

It looks intimidating, but part of your confusion possibly stems from three sources: (1) the braided feeder lines from the block adapter to the remote oil filter, (2) the -8 braided line that links the driver's side valve cover to the breather tank that sits in front of the thermostat, or (3) the "loop" hose that I had to create to route the oil from the remote filter housing to the thermostat.

As you indicated, it essentially is a 4 hose connection. But with a remote oil filter set-up, that add's additional hose to the set-up. And since most of our cars require (due to frame clearance issues) a remote filter set-up, you then have to plumb the thermostat after you filter the oil. Thus, creating this loop/connection from the remote filter housing to the thermostat requires some creativity. I was going to figure out a way to do it with just hard adapters and fittings (no hose), but it would have looked funky and would have cost me an easy $100 in parts.

PM me if you have any questions.

-Dean

RedBarchetta · #31 (**permalink**) 03-26-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonC

Have had both the Canton T-stat and a 1 qt Accusump (for pre-oiling)

DonC

Don, great set-up! I'd love to see pics from the bottom view that shows how you connected it all together (T adapter for Accusump, etc.).

-Dean

spl310 · #32 (**permalink**) 03-26-2007, 08:05 PM

Dean,

Thanks for clearing that up. I have been "warned" by a number of "experts" not to install the cooler for a variety of reasons - some of which have merit. I thought that with the thermostat, it would eliminate the biggest issues of accelerated wear due to insufficient lubrication temperature. The lack of pressure drop is a good thing.

Any brand recommendations?

CWizard · #33 (**permalink**) 03-27-2007, 09:22 AM

Is there a pressure drop using them? JUST THE OPPOSITE! I'm seeing a good 6-7 psi more upon start-up, as there is less hose for the oil to snake through when the flow is being directed to the thermostat.

Dean - What you report above makes sense for cold conditions. But what about your hot oil pressure, when oil has to make the trip through the thermostat and the cooler? Do you have some before and after hot pressure data you could share? I'm especially interested because I'm considering adding a thermostat and don't have a lot of surplus oil pressure to give up.
Thanks,
Jerry

RedBarchetta · #34 (**permalink**) 03-27-2007, 10:42 AM

All readings at 1,000 rpm and with a relatively new oil pressure gauge.
Oil used = Valvoline Synthetic 20w-50.

Cold oil pressure = 55-57 psi
warm oil pressure = 40 psi
operating temp pressure (@ 210-220 degrees, oil routing to the cooler) = 30 psi

Hope this helps!

-Dean

Morris · #35 (**permalink**) 04-10-2007, 03:33 PM

The Oil Thermostat controls the speed at which the oil Temp get up to temp first....... around 200*degrees ..... especially for Aluminum motors.....

Then the size of the oil cooler will control the end result oil temp ......

If you run the motor hard and it goes over 250*degrees ....then you need a larger oil cooler.....

220*degrees on the oil is the optimium oil temp at speed......

Morris

hk4site · #36 (**permalink**) 06-02-2007, 09:34 PM

www.batinc.net makes a oil thermostat for porche's should work the same.

Ant · #37 (**permalink**) 02-10-2009, 12:57 PM

Morris,

Oil system plumbing ideas:

I have a 3 stage Peterson pump with two -12 scavenge ports and was intending on running "one -12 scavenge line" back to the oil tank, and the other -12 scavenge line via a Peterson Bypass valve to an oil cooler then to the Oil Tank, and the -10 bypass "relief valve" line to tank, that means fitting an extra two fittings to the tank as there is one -16 tank port. I also have a scavenge manifold with a -16 exit fitting and could run that through the -12 bypass valve to cooler and excess pressure would take the -10 bypass circuit to the oil tank, but I am not sure of the flow rate of that and that would mean blocking the oil cooler off manually!

Another idea is to use a Canton T/stat on one -12 scavenge circuit, then to the oil cooler, the other -12 circuit straight to tank, this thinking in my opinion is better than having a manifold down to one single -12 line to T/stat where all my scavenge oil has to pass, with two lines it will have an adequate flow rate.

We will be using an external tank heater before use so the oil will be heated, I am not a fan of cooling the oil pressure side, and really the only reason I am contemplating a T/stat or Bypass valve is to avoid blown oil coolers on start up, with cold thick oil in the pan hydraulicing its way through the cooler, but having said that the oil flow with the Canton uses the easiest path so on startup it will still send some oil through the cooler but shouldnt be an issue.

Quite a few racers run coolers on the scavenge without pressure relief and get away with it but I have seen F5000 race cars start up and blow coolers because of the scavenge oil pressure or pulse is worse even though the cooler is open ended.

All that sounds complicated for a street racer.........!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris