Roush Motors Prices??

[madmaxx]

If one advertises a cobra with a Roush for the same price as one without the Roush, the Roush will sell first everytime. I am not saying they are the best I am saying the have mastered marketing. I will also say my new SPF came with a Roush and the only component which has been flawless from the beginning is the Roush. If I buy another cobra it will have a Roush.

Originally Posted by PCW

Maybe, but if you look at some of the used SPF cars for sale right now with Roush motors, I see no indication that they are selling for more than KC or any other 427W, non EFI. Some Roush resale for more, some for less. Resale is really up to what someone is willing to pay for any given car. Show me a book valve on any of these cars? Someone may want a more period correct car with an FE motor and would be willing to pay more for that, others don't really care about correctness and just want a 302SB. Without a true book valve, there is no way to tell and it's really wide open.

Craig

[sp351cobra]

Craig, I just got a motor from Smeding. What a nice job! 351 b&s to 427, topped with
4x2 48 IDA Webers! Saaaweet!

Bruce

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by sp351cobra

Craig, I just got a motor from Smeding. What a nice job! 351 b&s to 427, topped with
4x2 48 IDA Webers! Saaaweet!

Bruce

I've only heard good things about Smeding.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

If one advertises a cobra with a Roush for the same price as one without the Roush, the Roush will sell first everytime. I am not saying they are the best I am saying the have mastered marketing. I will also say my new SPF came with a Roush and the only component which has been flawless from the beginning is the Roush. If I buy another cobra it will have a Roush.

+1, I have owned many cars / boats over the years with custom motors and the Roush in my SPF has been flawless. A friend bought a SPF with very low miles (less than 5K) that had what was supposed to be a high dollar stroked windsor and he had problems with it from day one. The motor looked really good from the outside, but he had no idea what was inside. The only thing he could do was go off what the previous owner told him and IMO I don't know if he got the truth. You go with a Roush motor and you know what you are getting and so will the next buyer, so I would say resale is definitely better.

[PCW]

Originally Posted by sp351cobra

Craig, I just got a motor from Smeding. What a nice job! 351 b&s to 427, topped with
4x2 48 IDA Webers! Saaaweet!

Bruce

Bruce,

Good deal, gotta love the webers, I sent you a PM.

Craig

[greg schroeder]

After having Roush 427R-095 I think I'd ask them to build another one just like it if I did it again. If I wanted to save money I'd put the Roush engine in myself.

[Spoooky]

Roush is the way to go. They were just fantastic with my 511 aluminum FE #3. I had some rings that were sticking after a leak down test was performed, they pulled the motor, it was shipped back to Roush, and came back with all new internals. didn't cost me a dime. It is well worth it. Check out my gallery. I have a real beast.

[PANAVIA]

Guys-- one thing we are forgetting here is the sheer number of options from Roush.

I have a spreadsheet with the different configurations --all 178 of them. -and the 20-25 options that can be ordered on any config.

They have configuration options to support SPF, Backdraft and Shelby CSX cars out of the Box ( er --uh-- Crate). The fantastic thing about the Roush Motor is the R&D,Support and documentation that you get with this.

I wouldn't call them Crate Engines, --I would call them "Create Engines"

Pricing to the public as a Roush dealer is a "contracted sales price" that you are (as a Roush dealer) not superposed to go below. -- and if you do ---you are probably in the red on the transaction, and will have to close as you cant pay your electrical bill.

Put it this way ; margins are so thin on this type of business that we cannot extend the sale on a credit card --as the 2% to 3% credit card fee would place us in the RED on certain combos.

The Revenue on this sale is Labor/Install -- maybe a little bit of margin on the top-end engines with the 8 stack EFI, but there are so many soft costs that you have to absorb, that it probably nets out.

Steve

[PCW]

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

Guys-- one thing we are forgetting here is the sheer number of options from Roush.

I have a spreadsheet with the different configurations --all 178 of them. -and the 20-25 options that can be ordered on any config.

They have configuration options to support SPF, Backdraft and Shelby CSX cars out of the Box ( er --uh-- Crate). The fantastic thing about the Roush Motor is the R&D,Support and documentation that you get with this.

I wouldn't call them Crate Engines, --I would call them "Create Engines"

Pricing to the public as a Roush dealer is a "contracted sales price" that you are (as a Roush dealer) not superposed to go below. -- and if you do ---you are probably in the red on the transaction, and will have to close as you cant pay your electrical bill.

Put it this way ; margins are so thin on this type of business that we cannot extend the sale on a credit card --as the 2% to 3% credit card fee would place us in the RED on certain combos.

The Revenue on this sale is Labor/Install -- maybe a little bit of margin on the top-end engines with the 8 stack EFI, but there are so many soft costs that you have to absorb, that it probably nets out.

Steve

Steve,

I understand what you are saying, but tell me how a local builder can built the same motor, same block, alum. heads, same warranty etc, and be 3-4K less? I can tell you, it's overhead. Who pays for all those different config. that Roush offers? The customer because it is passed along to them through inventories, buildings, equipment, R&D, employee health plans etc....

I define a crate motor as a turn key motor, weather that is 1 motor or 5000 being produced. I have no real issue with Roush other than I feel their prices are high for what you get. Their overhead is what is driving their prices higher and higher. If there is really that small of a profit margin as you stated, then they need to do some Six Sigma and resolve that. Good thing they have a good reputation, if not, they would be in some trouble if their profit margin is only 2-3 %. To be honest I find that questionable. I guess for me I would rather have my motor built by a professional that I know rather than by someone I don't. If I have questions I can drive right over and have it looked at by the guy who built it and installed it, can't do that with a Roush. With everything being equal, Block, parts, warranty etc... and saving a couple of grand, throw in local support, there is no question in my mind, I would go that route any day.

Edit*** Found this link, 2000.00 off MSRP for a Roush 427R, 13,425.00 Kinda blows the whole 2-3% profit margin statement.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/eng...shengines.html

Craig

[RodKnock]

I haven't sat around to compare and contrast everyone's offerings in a long time, and I don't have a dog in this hunt, but Roush did include the small items on their engines like starters, alternators, flywheels, etc., which, often, other builders may have as optional. Additionally, Roush does use top quality parts such as Dart blocks, AFR heads, forged H-beam rods, etc., which other builders may charge more for, but again, I haven't been comparison shopping of late.

Also, when a Roush engine has a problem, Roush will take of it, although it may take some time to get it fully resolved.

I think in the end, Roush is probably still the most expensive, but their owners feel the extra dollars are well worth it.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... and I don't have a dog in this hunt.

Nor do I, but I do have a question -- will Roush build an engine with an original block, or only with new stuff?

[Cashburn]

That Factory Five link and pricing is totally out of date. So you are not going to get that pricing or that specific engine anymore.

If you are "convinced" that another engine builder is going to give you the same level of service, quality, name brand recognition, and specific parts (I'm talking down to the billet ignition wire looms and special part numbers for things like distributor from MSD) then you probably are not seeing the whole package so to speak. That is fine, buy that other engine and "save thousands" at first and then put the thousands back in to get the flywheel, Canton pan, air cleaner, etc.

No experience out here in the Northeast with Smedding ... never even seen one.

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Nor do I, but I do have a question -- will Roush build an engine with an original block, or only with new stuff?

Yes, they will. We have completed cars for customers with "seasoned" blocks to meet certain states emission requirements.

[madmaxx]

Cashburn is right. I know even though they use Holley carburators, Roush either specifies certain jets, springs etc or modifies them theirselves. Their billet aluminium spark plug wire holders are pretty nice, the devil is in the details. If I were going spf, bdr, quality replica I would not have any heartburn spending the extra for a Roush. If I were buying a used cobra for $20K and the engine went out, then I would probably take a different route. I knowed I called Roush on a distributor question and they promptly returned my call and discussed in detail how the advance was set. I have never had to use it but their warranty service can be slow at times. Their warranty agreement is also squirrely if you read in detail they only have to warrant up to $5K, although from threads on this forumn they have warranted engines repairs out of warranty with almost a full free replacement. Unless the abuse was excessive and obvious, they will stand behind their engines.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Cashburn

No experience out here in the Northeast with Smedding ... never even seen one.

I don't have a Smeding engine either, but they have a great reputation out here on the West Coast. They've been featured in several magazines including a recent Kit Car magazine, plus here's more:

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techar...rformance.html

http://www.mustangandfords.com/proje...t_4/index.html

While Smeding is not as famous a Roush, he's built a very good business over the years. Again, I have neither a Roush nor a Smeding. My engine was built by Tom Lucas at FE Specialties and I'm happy, but then I have less than a 1,000 miles on it.

[PCW]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't have a Smeding engine either, but they have a great reputation out here on the West Coast. They've been featured in several magazines including a recent Kit Car magazine, plus here's more:

http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techar...rformance.html

http://www.mustangandfords.com/proje...t_4/index.html

While Smeding is not a famous a Roush, he's built a very good business over the years. Again, I have neither a Roush nor a Smeding. My engine was built by Tom Lucas at FE Specialties and I'm happy, but then I have less than a 1,000 miles on it.

I want everyone to understand, I'm not bashing Roush, if their prices were more in line with what I have found local builders charging, I would consider them. My point is that there is a lot of local Builders that have been doing this for many many years. Ben Smeding, Tom Lucas -FE Specialists and Eliot Franklin - Mustang Corral, just to mention a few. They know what their doing and they are very respected in the industry. They use high end parts, I'm sure Roush uses as well. They might not have the notoriety of Roush, but they can build you a great motor and that's what I'm buying.

I know a lot of people feel the more expensive, the better the product and that may be true in some cases, but there are other options that are just as good. If saving money isn't a big deal to you, then that's cool. I look at it like if I save a few thousands here, that could pay for my TKO 600 or a 17" rims and tires upgrade or just in my pocket. Different strokes for different folks, if you have a Roush and you are happy with it, that is all the matters. If people are going look at me or my car differently because I don't have a Roush, then, oh well.

Thanks to all that posted your comments and thoughts. I appreciate your honesty and opinions.

Craig

[patrickt]

Luck has a lot to do with it as well. One of the bigger FE builders, that is mentioned on Club Cobra all the time, and who is well-respected, gets absolutely blasted on my local Cobra forum because we've had a couple of members that, for whatever reason, have had bad experiences with that builder (who eventually made everything good, it just took time). And that particular builder has successfully built probably a zillion FE motors. Think about it, if you've done anything a thousand times, you've probably done it poorly at least a few times out of that number. But around here, we expect engine builders to be like 767 pilots on a landing -- you only get one chance to do it right, and you damn well better do it right, because you probably won't get a second chance. Oh, and you have to do it right every single time, no exceptions.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But around here, we expect engine builders to be like 767 pilots on a landing -- you only get one chance to do it right, and you damn well better do it right, because you probably won't get a second chance. Oh, and you have to do it right every single time, no exceptions.

You'd be surprised........

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

You'd be surprised........

Well, you know what I meant.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by PCW

I want everyone to understand, I'm not bashing Roush, if their prices were more in line with what I have found local builders charging, I would consider them. My point is that there is a lot of local Builders that have been doing this for many many years. Ben Smeding, Tom Lucas -FE Specialists and Eliot Franklin - Mustang Corral, just to mention a few. They know what their doing and they are very respected in the industry. They use high end parts, I'm sure Roush uses as well. They might not have the notoriety of Roush, but they can build you a great motor and that's what I'm buying.

I know a lot of people feel the more expensive, the better the product and that may be true in some cases, but there are other options that are just as good. If saving money isn't a big deal to you, then that's cool. I look at it like if I save a few thousands here, that could pay for my TKO 600 or a 17" rims and tires upgrade or just in my pocket. Different strokes for different folks, if you have a Roush and you are happy with it, that is all the matters. If people are going look at me or my car differently because I don't have a Roush, then, oh well.

Thanks to all that posted your comments and thoughts. I appreciate your honesty and opinions.

Craig

Craig,

Sounds like your decision has been made. The "hunt" for the best engine that fits your own vision is the most important factor. In most cases, the final decision is combination of exhilaration and relief.

Like Rodney, I've heard nothing but good things about Smeding. Everything you purchase is a balance between the actual value of the product compared to competitors, and after market service. For me the Roush motor was money well spent.