Open Carry of a Handgun inTexas

[Dwight]

My father bought me a single barrel shotgun when I was 12. I learn to hunt with this gun. I was drafted into the Army in 1966 and returned home in '68. After I married in '69 and had a couple of kids I bought a couple of pistols to shoot for fun. I enjoy history so I read magazines and books to learn the history that goes with guns. Guns are like cars. They both have a history and are mechanical. Most men like mechanical things. Tools, boats, guns, cars, buildings, etc. Over the years I bought guns that I can use to protect family and myself but I have never used one for protection. I have a lot of insurance that I have paid for thru the years that I have not used. Maybe it's the same thing. I feel good knowing that I have this insurance. History has proved many times over that some men will try to rule over others with violent force. Guns in the hands of good men can hold these evil men at bay. Governments are made up of men, some good, some bad. Look at the last 20 years of history in the world. Are all people free to do what they want to do? Do gangsters and police dept terrorize the people?
I just sleep better knowing that I and a lot of people in the U.S.A. have guns in their homes.


Dwight

[392cobra]

The following is a very good read.It goes to the English and the U.S. liberal's anti-gun/anti-self defence mind set.
It also points out the slippery slope the English have gone down and where we might have been headed if the decision yesterday by the Supreme Ct. had gone the other way.

Gun Control's Twisted Outcome
Restricting firearms has helped make England more crime-ridden than the U.S.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

[will butterwort]

to the comment about having to pull out your gun. I intentionally moved to rural cleburne co. alabama to get away from it. wrong--it will come to you--it has to me. Since vietnam--never wanted to see a gun again.Rural ,ala. first thing i rem. is having to chase lovers off our farm--fired some up in the air.Next--out of staters-kids pulled off road to have sex at home construction site--took two guns with me--ran them off.Next--group of teenagers hold up in old house on farm for week or two--didn,t know about--accidentally saw-caught up with--pulled out guns again to check out situation--kids hold up --apprenhended them--callec sheriff--. What I have learned in these 37 years in rural alabama--your on your on--when sheriff gets there it will all be over. I can sight lots more--four times being robbed-burglarized--there is no help from police--don,t mention the tomes I have called game warden for help shooting across our pastures-houses--one shooter was about 100 yards in my cemetery firing by house in night-time. Well--you get the idea--police investigates when it is all over.Game warden hasn,t showed up yet. Governments have killed heck of a lot more folks than citizens have, out of control--gestapo comes to mind,then whole country goes criminal, ww11, 51 million, not to mention uncle Joe, up north. Thus the second amendment .Will-alabama

[Bobcat]

Had to "use " my handgun some years ago . I used to have to travel at all hours and go through the middle of nowhere to get where I was going . Nature called at 1:00am in the boonies , so I pulled off the road and went into the woods . Came out and there were 4 "individuals" around my car trying to get in . Asked what they wanted and as they approached me , I casually pulled my .45 and repeated the question . End of problem .
Second time was on the way back from a race , towing my race car . Carload of punks thought it would be great fun to pass me and slam on their brakes , pull ahead and repeat . Slowing down and trying to avoid any conflict only escalated things . When they came along side and tried to force me off the road , I pulled the gun and racked a round in the chamber and they took the next exit .
FYI ... a good friend of mine is with the Sheriff`s Dept here ( First entry team ) and he told me you would be crazy in today`s society to not have a CWP !
You have to wonder why the Government is so anxious to disarm all the citizens ???

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by Don

I do not recall, excluding the military, does everyone in the UK police force carry a handgun ?

Hi Don,
The vast majority of British Police don't carry firearms.

In general, crime has reduced in the UK, but only a tiny fraction of crime is gun related and that tends to be gang related. However, we do have a bit of a knife issue at present with teenagers carrying knifes, supposedly to protect themselves. However, all that appears to be happening is that once a knife is drawn, it escalates a minor dispute into a potential killing, when it may have been a simple brawl had knifes not been present.

I will gladly acknowledge that our laws have tended to favour the criminals and anyone who has taken it upon themselves to take on any intruder or assailant has left themselves open to intense scrutiny from the authorities as to whether justifiable force was used. However, that situation seems to have been addressed more recently, with the government basically giving the all clear to defend yourself, family or property (but not with a firearm).

The issue that concerns many people at present in Britain is that of apparently lawless juveniles. A few people have been attacked and very sadly, killed by gangs of "kids" when they have been confronted by a member of the public for some misdemeanour. Thankfully, very few, if any of these tragic events have involved firearms, not that that is any consolation to those involved or their families.

Paul

[Buzz]

I don't live in the US but similar arguments are happening here as we speak.

My Dad taught me to shoot (plus load, clean, handle and respect) a revolver when I was very young. Like one poster above wrote, I am like most lil' boys and love cars, guns, boats, planes, tools, and machinery in general.

The laws down here will allow issue a concealed handgun license to the successful applicant only if he or she has verifiable medical and background references and can show a specific need. No constitutionally guaranteed RKBA here, unfortunately.

ALL handgun permits are concealed carry and you are admonished to keep your weapon on your person or in your direct control at all times - NEVER, for example, leave it locked in your car. If your firearm is lost or stolen you can, depending on the circumstances, be held liable for a hefty fine.

There are sporting (competition) permits as well, and people with large acreages or properties (a big home on a 20,000+ sq.ft. lot will often qualify) can also apply for an "estate license" that permits them to buy and keep a rifle or shotgun. All guns are registered in the name of the licensed owner and cannot be transferred without due process.

Due to the nature of my business(es) and a couple of brushes with some ill-intentioned folks in the past, I am an armed citizen. In addition to my Dad's tutoring and lots of hands on practice over the years, I of course had to undergo the mandatory training which is pretty in-depth; along with regular range drills. I used to be a bit of a hothead in the past (when I was a few weeks younger ) but carrying a licensed gun has forced me to become a more aware, diplomatic and socially responsible citizen.

I understand the 2A constitutional issue and discuss it often with US friends, but I have to say I like our system of checks and training and cannot feel good about every Tom, Dickhead, and Harry with a self esteem deficit issue going to the corner gunstore and buying a .500 S&W. I also shudder to think of people with no training or experience with even the basic rules toting a 15 round Glock with its so-called trigger (un)safety mechanism (I know - I own one). Rights come with responsibility and common sense and simply turning everyone loose with a gun, to me, is like letting everyone drive on the freeways without the learning and licensing process. A gun, like a car, is only a tool that does what the user makes it do. Both can wreak mayhem and destruction in incompetent or malicious hands.

No good person should be denied the ability to protect themselves or their own from aggression and harm but without some sensible system of training and regulation, mere posession of a gun in the hands of SOME people might be more of a liability to themselves and others than anything else.

Having said all that I am glad to hear that the 2A was upheld and squeamish paranoids will not impose an unreasonable fear of an inanimate device on the good members of the populace. I also hope these same good people will recognize the merit in tolerating a small measure of regulation and inconvenience as a tradeoff in favor of the greater good in the same spirit, for instance, that we accept the benefits of enduring tighter security measures at the airports when we travel.

[392cobra]

I believe a Man's biggest responsibilities are to provide for and protect his family,their possessions,and to defend others & himself from harm.

It isn't the Government or police's job to protect me,even if they could.

The problem with gun's are the criminal,not the law abiding citizen.

The holder of a CHL has been checked out from the local level thru the Federal level.Then youhave to pass tests on gun laws and be able to fire it with proficiently.

In 2006 there were 258,162 CHL holders in Texas.

Here are the 2006 Texas Criminal Convictions....

Total Convictions
in Texas 61,539

Convictions
of CHL Holders 140

CHL Holder
Percentage of Total
Convictions .2275%

"Total Convictions in Texas" includes all convictions reported to the state criminal history repository for the offense during the calendar year for individuals age 21 or over.

[Buzz]

I agree with everything you wrote. The more hardcore RKBA advocates among us however are against practically all forms of regulation and control as they see any interference at all as an infringement on their constitutionally guaranteed right to be armed.

[diegokid]

One of the students in the VA Tech shootings had a CCW. He being the honest person he was he didn't have his weapon on him during the attacks. His father told me he feels some responsibility now because he could have stopped some of the killing.

What people fail to realize is you will never get the bg's to surrender their weapons and you will never be able to stop them from getting them. The following is cut from a FOX news article. People complain about our dead in a war zone overseas but just look at some of our cities where they have the toughest anti-gun laws on the books.


Nine people were killed in 36 shootings during one weekend this spring. The next week, five people were found shot to death inside a South Side home.
Chicago Public Schools officials say 27 students have been killed by gunfire since September.
Pamela Bosley lost her 18-year-old son two years ago, when a bullet struck him as he helped a fellow student unload instruments outside a South Side Church.
"If you didn't have the guns, we'd still have our children," she said.
Annette Nance-Holt, whose 16-year-old son was killed on a city bus last spring when someone sprayed bullets inside it, was livid with the court's decision.
"I'm still trying to figure out who we are more in love with, our children or our guns," she said. "It's crazy. I'm safer being a deer knowing people are hunting you."
Daley was also troubled by the ruling.
He predicted more violence and higher taxes to pay for extra police if his city's gun restrictions are lost.

On the flip side the city is already trying to use this as an excuse to raise more taxes.

[Don]

USA Today:

Wayne LaPierre: Executive vice president of the National Rifle Association of America.

'We're not done, yet'

Court's ruling is just opening salvo in NRA's bid to extend gun rights.

The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm for any lawful purpose. Period.

The Founding Fathers meant it, 4 million NRA members defend it, and the U.S. Supreme Court confirmed it.

For three decades, lawful residents of the District of Columbia had no right to possess a handgun in their own homes. Today, they do. That's a good thing, because good people should be able to protect themselves, especially at home.

The court firmly, and rightly, upheld that basic right to self-defense and declared the gun ban unconstitutional. This historic decision cements the individual right to bear arms as a cornerstone of American constitutional law.

"We start therefore with a strong presumption that the Second Amendment right is exercised individually and belongs to all Americans," the court ruled.

This case was, simply, about the basic human right to a firearm for personal protection. The right to bear arms — an individual right — just like the basic human rights to free speech, to worship and to vote.

Basic, human freedom for all law-abiding Americans. That's worth fighting for — and we're not done, yet.

This monumental decision is just the opening salvo. The court declared the individual right to own a firearm, but not every American can exercise that right. While Washington, D.C., residents can now possess a handgun, lawful residents of San Francisco and Chicago cannot.

Would we stand idly by if Washington residents could vote, but not those of Chicago? Or if Georgians could freely practice their faiths, while Californians had no freedom to worship? There would be outrage — and there is, from 80 million gun owners and every American who values freedom.

The NRA is filing lawsuits against cities in which gun ownership is banned, to restore individual freedom for the lawful Americans who live there. Because freedom for some Americans, and not for all, isn't freedom — it's discrimination. And it's wrong.

The freedom to bear arms belongs, individually, to every law-abiding American. It always has, and the NRA will keep fighting to preserve that fundamental right.

[jshel1]

First, I echo Dwight's sentiments... I sleep better at home...

Second, the beliefs of those governing both left coasts and those producing our mass media might as well be on another planet from my perspective. I feel safe simply on my own accord, in my daily trek on mass transit to the Dallas Hospital District outside of major commuter times... I feel better away from home

The police are there to protect and serve, but usually about 8-10 minutes after the fact.

[Don]

Background info on the lawyer that brought the case before the Supreme Court. " How A Libertarian Who's Never Owned A Gun Brought The Decisive Case On The Second Amendment "

" (CBS) Supreme Court decisions always have the potential to make headlines and provoke debate. Case in point: Its ruling this week on the right to own a gun. It's a cause one man worked long and hard to bring before the court, as we hear in our Cover Story reported by Martha Teichner. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4217235.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4217209.shtml

**************************

Chris Powell, Managing Editor of the Manchester CT Journal Inquirer: Note the comment in the last paragraph

" So the Second Amendment to the Constitution does establish an individual right to bear arms and particularly to handgun ownership after all. While the U.S. Supreme Court was sharply divided as it reached that conclusion the other day, one may wonder why the Founders bothered to put the right to bear arms in the Bill of Rights if it was not meant to be an individual right and a restraint against government, not meant to be another guarantee of limited government. If, as some contend, the right to bear arms was meant to be completely conditional upon membership in a militia, and not an individual right, there would have been no need to put it into the Bill of Rights, the Constitution already having given Congress the power "to provide for the common defense."

Constitutional interpretation aside, the court's decision clears the way for moderate and practical policies on guns. It nullifies the District of Columbia's extreme ordinance, which outlawed possession of handguns and allowed long guns in private homes only if they were unloaded, disassembled, or equipped with trigger locks -- that is, only if they were virtually useless for self-defense. But the decision allows states and municipalities to continue to require licenses for guns and to impose restrictions short of prohibition. As the House chairman of the Judiciary Committee of Connecticut's General Assembly, Michael P. Lawlor, quickly noted, the decision will not impair the state's gun laws, which are already strict.

The Supreme Court's decision will be lamented as a blow to fighting crime, but, as the District of Columbia itself has proved, the jurisdictions with the most restrictive gun laws are also the most crime-ridden. Because criminals disregard them, gun restrictions do little more than disarm the law-abiding who would protect themselves, particularly where the police are least adept. Besides, what is perceived as the country's gun crime problem is mostly just a matter of drug prohibition, as its gun crime problem in the 1920s was mostly just a matter of alcohol prohibition. "

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by Iceberg

Here is a statistic for you:

36,000 violent gun deaths in America.

Of those 36,000 deaths, 12,000 are suicide, 54 were justifiable homicides.. Statitically most of the 24,000 non-suicide deaths were committed by a family member or by a person known by the vicitim. This menatlity of I need a gun to protect myself from some unknown assailaint is rubish and fear mongering. Just ask the 6 dead people killed by a co-worker in Henderson , Kentucky yesterday. I bet they are not happy with the supreme courts decision. I am not for banning guns, but they should a hell of lot harder to secure than going down to my local gun show with $300.

As a retired cop I can tell you without a doubt that you are very wrong. I dealt with several people that protected themselves and family with a gun.

Would you like somebody trying to take your Cobra away from you? Lot's of people don't think you should be driving a car like that and there is no constitutional protection for you when it comes to a car.

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by SP01715

As a retired cop I can tell you without a doubt that you are very wrong. I dealt with several people that protected themselves and family with a gun.

Would you like somebody trying to take your Cobra away from you? Lot's of people don't think you should be driving a car like that and there is no constitutional protection for you when it comes to a car.

Seems like most of the anti-gun crowd likes to confuse what non-CHL people do with weapons and what people with CHL'S do.

I would sure like to see some stats on how many crimes are prevented by CHL holders.

The police I have come in contact with have all told me that they consider CHL holders "Certified Good Guys".

[392cobra]

Texas man cleared of shooting suspected burglars

By JUAN A. LOZANO, Associated Press Writer
Tue Jul 1, 5:14 AM ET



Ever since he fatally shot two men he suspected of burglarizing his next-door neighbor's home, 62-year-old Joe Horn has been both praised and vilified for his actions.

Horn called 911 and told the dispatcher he had a shotgun and was going to kill the intruders. The dispatcher pleaded with him not to go outside, but a defiant Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

Some community activists wanted Horn to face charges for the deaths. Supporters of the retired grandfather said what he did was justified under the law.

After listening to evidence in the case, including testimony from Horn himself, a grand jury on Monday cleared him of the shootings.

"He wasn't acting like a vigilante. He didn't want to do it," said Tom Lambright, Horn's attorney.

Lambright said Horn was not a "wild cowboy" who took the law into his own hands after he saw the two suspected burglars, with bags in hand, crawling out of windows from his neighbor's home on Nov. 14 in the Houston suburb of Pasadena. The neighbor was out of town at the time.

Instead, Horn was a frightened retiree who tried to defend his neighbor's property and when the two men came onto his yard and threatened him, Horn defended himself, Lambright said.

"He was scared. He was in fear of his life," he said.

Grand jurors had to consider two issues in the case: the intentional killing of another person and whether the killing was justified either by self-defense or the defense of property, Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Magidson said. "The grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town. It's not clear whether the neighbor whose home was burglarized asked Horn to watch over his house.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz told the Houston Chronicle in Monday's online edition. "This was no more than a vigilante."

Horn did not speak with reporters on Monday.

A large red sign with the words "No Trespass" on it blocked the path to his front door and a handwritten sign on the door said "Please no media," "No Trespassing" and "Do not knock or ring bell." A couple of neighbors also had signs on their doors asking media to leave them alone.

A few police cars patrolled the area near Horn's home.

The two suspected burglars, Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

The city of Pasadena, where protesters and defenders of Horn engaged in counter-demonstrations, pledged to keep its police force staffed enough to protect its citizens.

Keith Hampton, a Houston attorney not connected with the case, said he didn't expect Horn to be indicted. "This is a real conservative county," he said. "A lot of folks in Houston and Harris County are saying this man was doing a good thing."

In the 911 call, a dispatcher urges Horn to stay inside his house and not risk lives.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

After the shooting, he redialed 911.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."



Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten

[imagine2frolic]

I am kind of surprised by the ruling. First Mr. Horn said before the confrontation he was going to kill them, and second both shot in the back? Then again things are different in Texas.

Obviously these 2 are P'sOS! They have already, or would have done harm to someone along the way. Especially the fella previously deported. Somehow I get the feeling they got their due justice for other acts committed.

If I was the home owner I would not have wanted my neighbor to have gone outside. I can replace goods, but not a good neighbor. He may have been the one harmed. What's the term? KARMA......looks like they got what they deserved one way, or another.

[james-w]

We need more people to step up like Mr. Horn did. All it takes is a few more of these for the criminal element to figure out that when they break in to a house they might die. I would bet that crimes would decrease.

in my oponion, the world is better off without these two wothless POS.

James

[Rick Weber]

Hey All,

Thought you might find the following kind of interesting...
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offen...me/murder.html

I'm trying to figure out to how to fit a shorty shotgun into a hip holster...

[james-w]

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm


Saiga 12 shotgun heavily modified by Tromix in USA to their 8" Swat configuration, with aftermarket US-made 10-round magazine

Not a hip holster but.....

8-)

[Rick Weber]

Hey James,

I'll have to check that out...I'm sure that idea will go over real big here in NY...