Toploader pops out of third

[Young1]

I own a Unique I did not build. It has a WR toploader with 2900 miles built by Southern Automotive back in 2008 complete with shifter and lever. The boot is off, minimum of quarter inch clearance of linkages to trans tunnel, the linkages are all tight at the bushings, the trans mount produces no movement, it shifts well, has easy neutral and reverse engagement, clutch works well no grinding or stiffness to get in gear. 2500 rpm 2-3 shift then immediatly releasing the throttle, cars decels hard for 100 ft +- then pops out of third. Reproducable 50% of the time. How many dollars this time?? HELP. Please.

PS I read everything in Transmission Talk before posting.

[FatBoy]

I have the same problem and coincidentally, my CR Toploader also came from SA.
From what you have said, mine doesn't seem quite as bad as yours, but in some ways that's possibly worse because it catches you by surprise and when you least expect it.
The rubber boot doesn't appear to be the problem.
Any suggestions from anyone more familiar with these units?

Paul

[Young1]

I plan on going to the smokey mountains in the fall. Third gear will be used well there. I prefer to have no pucker moments with wife in the passenger seat.

[mickmate]

I just had that problem from a bad syncro ring. There was supposedly a bad batch of them.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Could be as simple as your linkage adjustment,that's the first thing I would check...............

David

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Could be as simple as your linkage adjustment,that's the first thing I would check...............

David

I'm pretty sure the linkage adjustment is fine. It changes gear easily and smoothly, which I'm sure it wouldn't do if the linkages were badly adjusted.

Thanks,
Paul

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

I'm pretty sure the linkage adjustment is fine. It changes gear easily and smoothly, which I'm sure it wouldn't do if the linkages were badly adjusted.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul, the linkage doesn't have to be badly out of adjustment for it to pop out of gear, in fact, just the opposite, if it is slightly out of adjustment, it will cause it to pop out of gear or occasionally when letting off the gas...
on the front and back of the shifter itself, there are is a bolt and nut on each end, these are the "stops" for 1st/3rd gear and 2cd/4th gears,if they are a turn or two out of whack it'll casue some of the problems you'll are talking about........
it'll still shift smoothly and freely, just will not go all the way into each gear!!!!!!!!

David

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

Paul, the linkage doesn't have to be badly out of adjustment for it to pop out of gear, in fact, just the opposite, if it is slightly out of adjustment, it will cause it to pop out of gear or occasionally when letting off the gas...
on the front and back of the shifter itself, there are is a bolt and nut on each end, these are the "stops" for 1st/3rd gear and 2cd/4th gears,if they are a turn or two out of whack it'll casue some of the problems you'll are talking about........
it'll still shift smoothly and freely, just will not go all the way into each gear!!!!!!!!

David

Okay David, thanks. I'll give it a try.

Paul

[msinc]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

I'm pretty sure the linkage adjustment is fine. It changes gear easily and smoothly, which I'm sure it wouldn't do if the linkages were badly adjusted.

Thanks,
Paul

The fact that it changes gears "easily and smoothly" tells me there is nothing wrong with the blocker rings. It's job is to bring the gear up to the same rpm so it can shift easily, and it sounds like it's doing that. Also, once the shift is made the blocker ring has nothing to do with staying in whatever gear you just shifted to. Very simply, worn brass blocker rings cannot cause a transmission to pop out of gear.
Typically, if a toploader {and it doesn't matter if it's close ratio or wide} gets into the gear, but then pops back out it is one of two things...either the dog teeth on the actual gear itself are worn and rounded, the splines in the outer syncronizer assembly, which engage the dog teeth on the gear are worn or rounded. Which is really the same issue, or, and this one is rare but it happens, the 3/4 shifter fork is worn or the groove in the 3/4 synchronizer is worn. The last issue can and will happen as a result in someone driving with their hand resting on the shifter while in 4th gear.
While the later issue, a worn fork groove in the outer syncronizer assembly is kind of rare, along those same lines the so called "shift gates" in the shifter itself can also be worn out of spec and that can also cause a trans to pop out of gear. Third is normally the one gear you don't have a lot of problems with in top loaders. Popping out of gear is generally a 2nd gear issue because of worn dog teeth on the gear itself. It is pretty rare to see the outer sync ring {not talking about the brass blocker} bad to the point of being unusable, even on a 2nd gear.
Been there...done that when it comes to top loaders....been a few years, but I have had, rebuilt and destroyed my share.

Edit: Well, I just noticed this is an old resurrected post, guess it pays to check that......

[mickmate]

I tried over adjusting the shift linkage to make sure it was going all the way in after trying the alignment pin and readjusting the linkage. I hoped it was a weak detent or a loose shifter arm nut but it was the syncro ring.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by mickmate

I tried over adjusting the shift linkage to make sure it was going all the way in after trying the alignment pin and readjusting the linkage. I hoped it was a weak detent or a loose shifter arm nut but it was the syncro ring.

very well could be the problem here, but before pulling the trans.,I would check the linkage adjustment.........

David

[NFLDMNBB]

I have had this happen. It can be the stops. I had a Mustang that did this and after adjusting the stops I had no more problems. If the stops are not adjusted properly what happens is the gear does not mesh as much as it should and with a little pressure it will easily disengage.
I would suggest adjusting the stops two flats at a time and see if it doesn’t improve if not eliminate popping out of gear.

Roger

[Young1]

My shifter does not have the stops on it. there is a small hole front and rear but they are not tapped. Looks like hurst changed their design? Now what? Looks like there are two of us on this thread with the same problem.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Young1

My shifter does not have the stops on it. there is a small hole front and rear but they are not tapped. Looks like hurst changed their design? Now what? Looks like there are two of us on this thread with the same problem.

I've never seen a shifter without the stops........
Here is a picture of a Hurst Competition Shifter I have...

David

[Young1]

NOPE I dont have those bolts and lock nuts. Just 3/16 holes where your pic shows them. I need to call the Parnhams at SA.

[PDUB]

If I recall correctly, Hurst has two shifter variants for the toploader, which are exactly the same price at Summit. One is called the Competition/Plus and the other is the Indy Universal. One of the differences is that the Indy doesn't have the stops (bolts).

The experts can chime in on whether there are any other differences, internal or external, and whether the stops can be added by simply threading the holes and adding the bolts/stop nuts, or not.

Are the stops really needed?

[redmt]

It also could be weak springs on the synchro hub and the little synchro dogs that locate the hub.

[susan parham]

Just saw your post and wanted to let you know that even if you were not the original
buyer, we will always be available to help. Please feel free to call the shop - 770-898-9360 and leave a call back # and Bill will call you this weekend or email us at
www.saengine@bellsouth.net with your contact information. Susan - Southern Automotive

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by susan parham

Just saw your post and wanted to let you know that even if you were not the original
buyer, we will always be available to help. Please feel free to call the shop - 770-898-9360 and leave a call back # and Bill will call you this weekend or email us at
www.saengine@bellsouth.net with your contact information. Susan - Southern Automotive

Thanks Susan. I'll drop you an email with my contact details.
I'll say that for the Parhams, regardless of what the issue is, they will always stand by their product, often beyond what would be considered a reasonable warranty.

Regards,
Paul

[Young1]

Thank you susan. I'll be in contact With you. Busy with granddaughter now.