Hydraulic Throwout Bearing VS Standard ?

[xb-60]

Sheesh, HTOBs! My advice for my car is to go with an HTOB, but I have been concerned for some time about the reliability of HTOBs so I am going to use a conventional external slave, and I will add a blister to my tunnel for clearance if need be. I don't want to have to remove and refit a heavy Toploader just to (again) access the HTOB. I'm too old for that !

Cheers,
Glen

[undy]

If the OP has an earlier LSC (2000 +/-) then the frame has ladder reinforcements under the tranny. That STOPS any tranny removal without pulling the engine/transmission as an assembly. In his case I wouldn't even consider installing a HTOB.

[wolf k]

This is a HTOB that I have in my car. It has been in use for 7 years, no leaks, works well.
It is OEM quality from GM I believe. Many OEM's are using HTOB these days.
However, I do agree with the others, it's only advantage I see is to save space.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

If the OP has an earlier LSC (2000 +/-) then the frame has ladder reinforcements under the tranny. That STOPS any tranny removal without pulling the engine/transmission as an assembly. In his case I wouldn't even consider installing a HTOB.

I would just use my Sawzall to remove a couple of "rungs" from that ladder bar, pop the transmission out from below, then maybe use a dab of JB Weld to put the rungs back in. Or maybe just leave them out entirely. I kind of think the added "give" in the frame would just add to the overall driving enjoyment.

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I would just use my Sawzall to remove a couple of "rungs" from that ladder bar, pop the transmission out from below, then maybe use a dab of JB Weld to put the rungs back in. Or maybe just leave them out entirely. I kind of think the added "give" in the frame would just add to the overall driving enjoyment.

That's what a lot of LSC owners have done. It's actually a "X" reinforcement made of thick wall 2"x 2" square tubing. Those that have accomplished its removal have reported back that there's no apparent loss of chassis rigidity.

When I have to remove my tranny it'll be me, a sawz-all and a one-time x-brace...

[ninexrep]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Since it increased pedal pressure, why do you like it ?

To everyone, what are the pro's & con's ?
With manufactured cars, why don't they have the same issue's as aftermarket ?

I had trouble with the original set-up and wanted to try a different approach. So far I'm happy with it.

[mikeinatlanta]

The issue with HTOB is some of the junk ones on the market. When dealing with quality, fewer moving parts equals higher reliability. HTOBs lack of an arm and pivot also results in a more direct transfer of energy. HTOB is lighter. Only way I'd go external is if I was doing some serious drag racing where I might melt the seals with heat.

If pulling the tranny is a major job, I'd be more worried about the design of the car than the throw out bearing anyway.

[PatBuckley]

Originally Posted by SwiftDB4

Do not use a McLeod internal slave cylinder. Had mine fail 3 times on my GT40. Each time the o rings on the swivel joints leaked. Tilton or possibly others have a better design, but an external slave avoids all this. Had my external for 5 years now with no problems.

Wow, I could have written this.

THREE McLoed failures in 3000 miles, switched to an external TOB.

Believe me, taking the gearbox out of a GT40 to repair the TOB is a royal pain, especially to find the problem is a torn o-ring.

[FUNFER2]

Wow, ...I will NOT be buying a internal clutch. Too many issues.

[Gaz64]

Good to hear majority agrees that external is more reliable and easier to maintain.

[FUNFER2]

Lol,....agreed.

What is the best adjustable fork rod ?

Actually, what is the best setup for the Ford 428 with a QuickTime bell ?

Need the external slave, fork, throw out bearing, adjustable rod, spring and rubber boot.

[bshaw1]

I have an early Contemporary Cobra - it had a clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder and was very hard to push in - so hard it would cramp my leg at traffic lights!
I purchased the Tilton Hyd TOB assembly and removed the old slave cylinder and throw out fork and bearing and installed the Tilton. It was just as difficult to push in as when it had the slave cylinder. I also replaced the pressure plate with a low pressure one and that also made no difference whatsoever.
So here I am with a Cobra that I cannot use due to the extreme pedal pressure
Does anyone have any ideas as to what I should do?

[Morris]

Pedal pressure is a results of 2 items.....
1. Leverage of the pedal or called pedal ratio
2. Size of the Master Cylinder...smaller is less pressure but less movement...

[FUNFER2]

Do you have any binding, and are you sure everything is installed and lined up properly ?
I would disassemble the entire clutch system and inspect every part for it's functionability.

With any moving parts, something can be off a tad bit, or very small can be broken and it won't work right or not at all. Look at the disk's springs and fingers. Move the bearing back and forth on the shaft.

If that doesn't work, give it a hard swift kick !

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Morris

Pedal pressure is a results of 2 items.....
1. Leverage of the pedal or called pedal ratio
2. Size of the Master Cylinder...smaller is less pressure but less movement...

Morris,

I think you mean smaller is less pressure (leg effort), but more movement (pedal) to achieve required travel at throwout fork.

Gary

[undy]

A smaller piston master cylinder will give you greater hydraulic pressure with a given amount of foot pressure but will move a lesser volume of fluid. Result: easier to push pedal but "possibly" not enough slave/clutch travel.

[lal Naja]

I'm very happy with my $135.00 Throwout bearing from Speedway motors. Installed on a TKO Transmission. However! I did have my first install fail within 2000 miles. I followed the instructions with care and accuracy, but it still failed. I was baffled and frustrated. I like the simplicity of the system so I decided to give it another try. So I pulled it and installed an identical new one, but this time I installed an adjustable pedal stop. I have a 7/8" master cylinder. I started with the pedal stop all the way out and with the engine running I tried to shift into gear with very little clutch movement and each time the gears crunched I adjusted the stop down a little more each time until crunching stopped and she smoothly went into gear. I was so suprised to discover that it took a quarter of the pedal stroke from my original setting to disengage the clutch. I then realized that I was over stressing the entire system, the throwout hydraulics and the clutch and I'm sure that the excessive movement of bearing cylinder was the cause of my failure. I love the micro clutch pedal movement and the very very low pedal pressure needed. It's almost as easy as my gas pedal. The car is such a pleasure to drive. 6000 miles now and no issue. So I'd highly recommend trying a pedal stop and adjusting till gear engages smoothly. I think you'll be pleasently surprised.

[ERA 626]

agreed if you must do a HTOB use the tilton do NOT use the mcleod.

[t walgamuth]

I would think because most of our cars don't get driven every day might be a contributor to problems with any hydraulic system. To me the annular slaves seem to be risky in that if you have a problem it is tranny out time to fix. Personally the old all mechanical linkages never caused me any trouble but an external slave is probably the way to go.

[ERA 626]

I have photos of the very nice Kirkham setup external slave cylinder and custom billet fork, but of course this site is so antiquated I cant even post a photo when replying only a link... to much of a PITA... wish some one would update this site...