tko 600 slipping - Page 2

patrickt · #1 (**permalink**) 01-31-2022, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavgarb302

The clutch reservoir is buried behind the brake booster to the outside of fender well plus a solid aluminum canister... not an easy check...l

Yeah, I think I knew that. Well, the scope might show it better than you would expect.

mavgarb302 · #2 (**permalink**) 01-31-2022, 05:23 PM

welp, fluid level is fine. about 1/2" from top. So if it is leaking it is such an amount that shouldnt effect clutch imo

patrickt · #3 (**permalink**) 01-31-2022, 05:36 PM

And no oil puddles under the car, right?

mavgarb302 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-31-2022, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

And no oil puddles under the car, right?

nope and no drop/drip from flywheel cover...getting a scope tomorrow, hopefully then I'll be able to see throwout distance to clutch and any leaks. I can feel down there but cant tell if theres a gap or not between HTOB and clutch..

Tommy · #5 (**permalink**) 01-31-2022, 07:21 PM

This may or may not be of use, but here goes. The procedure for setting the clutch pedal stop for my Tilton HTOB is as follows. Bleed the clutch system, raise the rear wheels off the ground and put the transmission in 4th gear with the parking brake disengaged. Have someone slowly push the clutch pedal down while someone else tries to manually rotate a rear wheel. As soon as the wheel can be turned (meaning the clutch has disengaged), stop pressing the clutch pedal and index the location with the pedal stop bolt. Repeat the test to see that the clutch does not disengage before the pedal reaches the stop. Then adjust the stop to allow the pedal (at the foot pad) to travel 1/4 inch farther. That is the final position of the pedal stop.

If your system is like mine (and it may or may not be so), then it should not be possible to push the pedal much past the position where the clutch disengages. If the pedal travels a lot farther, you may be overextending the HTOB piston causing it to leak at the piston seal.

mavgarb302 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy

This may or may not be of use, but here goes. The procedure for setting the clutch pedal stop for my Tilton HTOB is as follows. Bleed the clutch system, raise the rear wheels off the ground and put the transmission in 4th gear with the parking brake disengaged. Have someone slowly push the clutch pedal down while someone else tries to manually rotate a rear wheel. As soon as the wheel can be turned (meaning the clutch has disengaged), stop pressing the clutch pedal and index the location with the pedal stop bolt. Repeat the test to see that the clutch does not disengage before the pedal reaches the stop. Then adjust the stop to allow the pedal (at the foot pad) to travel 1/4 inch farther. That is the final position of the pedal stop.

If your system is like mine (and it may or may not be so), then it should not be possible to push the pedal much past the position where the clutch disengages. If the pedal travels a lot farther, you may be overextending the HTOB piston causing it to leak at the piston seal.

Useful. Should be able to just witness the gap between the two. I may be over extending though but I believe since mine has a return you can't in theory over extend it. I am not sure. Like on my roush it had a return line, dis engagement was within 3" of an 8" swing much like I have now. If it was a single line I believe it can be too much pressure but again, just my thought no research into YET..

cycleguy55 · #7 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavgarb302

Useful. Should be able to just witness the gap between the two. I may be over extending though but I believe since mine has a return you can't in theory over extend it. I am not sure. Like on my roush it had a return line, dis engagement was within 3" of an 8" swing much like I have now. If it was a single line I believe it can be too much pressure but again, just my thought no research into YET..

The second line isn't a return line - it's there to bleed air from the system. That's also why it's connected to the top of the HTOB - to be the high point and evacuate the air. Mine exits the bellhousing and goes directly to a bleed fitting - into which I've installed a quick bleeder / speed bleeder.

McLeod instructions: https://www.mcleodracing.com/product...structions.pdf

mavgarb302 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

The second line isn't a return line - it's there to bleed air from the system. That's also why it's connected to the top of the HTOB - to be the high point and evacuate the air. Mine exits the bellhousing and goes directly to a bleed fitting - into which I've installed a quick bleeder / speed bleeder.

McLeod instructions: https://www.mcleodracing.com/product...structions.pdf

yeah I misspoke a return would be useless on any hydraulic clutch.

6TNCRZY · #9 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 09:44 AM

I think we are off track here, if the clutch is slipping under high load the clutch is probably not fully engaging. In the release position the through out bearing is probably preloaded against the clutch fingers.

mavgarb302 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6TNCRZY

I think we are off track here, if the clutch is slipping under high load the clutch is probably not fully engaging. In the release position the through out bearing is probably preloaded against the clutch fingers.

I bought an endoscope today, so hopefully by this evening I can either see a leak or the HTOB pushing against clutch.

MaSnaka · #11 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 10:10 AM

I have seen a slick little bore scope you plug into your I Phone. Sorry I dont have a link. High Def.

I agree with 6TNCRAZY. Pre loaded TO bearing. As the disk wears the fingers move towards the TOB. Slight adjustment may be required.

Good luck,
John

cycleguy55 · #12 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaSnaka

I have seen a slick little bore scope you plug into your I Phone. Sorry I dont have a link. High Def.

I agree with 6TNCRAZY. Pre loaded TO bearing. As the disk wears the fingers move towards the TOB. Slight adjustment may be required.

Good luck,
John

I bought one about 10 years ago. 5 meters long, waterproof, camera end is about 6mm with tiny LEDs for illumination. USB connection that plugs into a laptop or other devicest (with adapters). I haven't tried it with my phone, but will need to check that out one of these days.

It's been quite useful in looking into otherwise inaccessible places - like reading the part number on the failed Corvette A/C relay used in my car as a fan relay. It was mounted on top of the crossbrace above the pedal assembly in my car. I could have removed it to check (which I eventually did), but having the scope was ideal when troubleshooting the problem.

mavgarb302 · #13 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

I bought one about 10 years ago. 5 meters long, waterproof, camera end is about 6mm with tiny LEDs for illumination. USB connection that plugs into a laptop or other devicest (with adapters). I haven't tried it with my phone, but will need to check that out one of these days.

It's been quite useful in looking into otherwise inaccessible places - like reading the part number on the failed Corvette A/C relay used in my car as a fan relay. It was mounted on top of the crossbrace above the pedal assembly in my car. I could have removed it to check (which I eventually did), but having the scope was ideal when troubleshooting the problem.

Yhea picked up a Milwakee at home depot plus a coworker brought his older WIFI snake cam. the wifi box is junk but got the 5mm cam with light to work with windows 10 camera app super easy.damn thing is 5meter long. Should pop right into my lap top.

mavgarb302 · #14 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 02:56 PM

Ok, so good news, no leaks. The bad news the HTOB moves with springs, zero gap and if HTOB moves the springs move with it. so I suspect it has constant pressure on clutch. pics will soon be in album

cycleguy55 · #15 (**permalink**) 02-02-2022, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavgarb302

Ok, so good news, no leaks. The bad news the HTOB moves with springs, zero gap and if HTOB moves the springs move with it. so I suspect it has constant pressure on clutch. pics will soon be in album

As noted in the McLeod instructions I linked above, McLeod offers a shorter piston if your setup doesn't have the required clearance. The piston is 0.200” shorter than the standard piston. Assuming your HTOB is a McLeod there's thereofore a relatively easy fix, but if so it would seem whoever did the installation and setup didn't take the proper measurements and clearance before bolting it all together. This should be on them to fix. McLeod's Tech Line number is in the linked PDF.

twobjshelbys · #16 (**permalink**) 02-01-2022, 07:46 PM

After two HTOB fiascos, I threw in the towel and got a regular master/slave setup. They are very sensitive to misalignment.

mavgarb302 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-02-2022, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

After two HTOB fiascos, I threw in the towel and got a regular master/slave setup. They are very sensitive to misalignment.

I may at some point idk once I can enjoy it. ATM I feel I got a lemon. I just know I am becoming very sensitive to a $100,000 car having paint blemishes and acting like a “not rod” because of the clutch. Two big issues and going on a month with zero answers. I hate to be negative bc but after all my ownership of more specialized vehicles this sure feels like wrong to have to come out of pocket for labor and possibly have to have it disassembled (which never goes back the same) to get the expectation i had the day i bought it with a 110,000 dollar cashiers check.

twobjshelbys · #18 (**permalink**) 02-02-2022, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavgarb302

I may at some point idk once I can enjoy it. ATM I feel I got a lemon. I just know I am becoming very sensitive to a $100,000 car having paint blemishes and acting like a “not rod” because of the clutch. Two big issues and going on a month with zero answers. I hate to be negative bc but after all my ownership of more specialized vehicles this sure feels like wrong to have to come out of pocket for labor and possibly have to have it disassembled (which never goes back the same) to get the expectation i had the day i bought it with a 110,000 dollar cashiers check.

There's two things about Cobras you need to understand. It's best that you understand these BEFORE you write the check.

1. A new Cobra needs a "sorting out" period. They are hand built cars so unlike the Ford from the dealer's lot there are lots of "adjustments" needed. The power train is especially so. No two will be the same and they will require some adjustment.

It is unfortunate that the HTOB requires attention. Mine did, twice, so I went to a system that if it does need attention is a lot easier to service.

2. A sorted out Cobra will still require tinkering. Always and forever. Cobras are a tinkerer's dream (or nightmare). If you want a car that you park in the garage, get in on Saturday morning, return to the garage Saturday afternoon and can ignore until next Saturday, you need to get a Corvette. With a Cobra, Saturday is for driving, Sunday is for tinkering.

Be patient, work through the rough spots and the car will reward you.

mavgarb302 · #19 (**permalink**) 02-02-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

There's two things about Cobras you need to understand. It's best that you understand these BEFORE you write the check.

1. A new Cobra needs a "sorting out" period. They are hand built cars so unlike the Ford from the dealer's lot there are lots of "adjustments" needed. The power train is especially so. No two will be the same and they will require some adjustment.

It is unfortunate that the HTOB requires attention. Mine did, twice, so I went to a system that if it does need attention is a lot easier to service.

2. A sorted out Cobra will still require tinkering. Always and forever. Cobras are a tinkerer's dream (or nightmare). If you want a car that you park in the garage, get in on Saturday morning, return to the garage Saturday afternoon and can ignore until next Saturday, you need to get a Corvette. With a Cobra, Saturday is for driving, Sunday is for tinkering.

Be patient, work through the rough spots and the car will reward you.

Yeah I get it, I actually expected it to a degree knowing how their built and what they are. I was expecting misalignment, trunk and hood needing adjusting, a rivet missing here etc but paint and a slipping clutch. I guess it could be worse. I let my frustrations get to me earlier.

patrickt · #20 (**permalink**) 02-02-2022, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavgarb302

ATM I feel I got a lemon. I just know I am becoming very sensitive to a $100,000 car having paint blemishes and acting like a “not rod” because of the clutch.

You haven't got a lemon. Really. You haven't. Cobras are just a completely different breed of cat. When I had my ERA built for me going on 17 years ago I had what I consider, and still consider, the finest hands in the world build my car and my engine (an FE, of course). That said, I still have had what some people would describe as "constant maintenance issues" up until this very day. Now, I've only had to perform emergency on-the-road repairs twice in order to get home, and I've only had to be towed home once. I've never had the car in a shop ever. These cars are really easy to fix. They are very much like the POS cars we all had in high school. Of course 50 years ago I would use coat hangar wire on the u-joints when I couldn't find a bolt -- I know better now.

The point is that these cars must be viewed as joys to work on. And, you need to start learning how to do that. I can already tell from your posts that you are quite capable of learning how to do any of these repairs. You might need a couple of extra hands helping you, but wives and kids can suffice... usually. If you don't take that approach, you will be missing a good part of the Cobra experience.