Carroll Shelby Engine Company - Page 2

ERA Chas · #21 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

...Seven years of college, three years of economics, five and half years of high school and repeating Kindergarten, 2nd and 4th grades ALL DOWN THE DRAIN.

All that schooling and you still own a fake Cobra???????

RodKnock · #22 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

All that schooling and you still own a fake Cobra???????

I prefer the term "REAL Kirkham".

I fit the general Cobra replica buyer profile: dumb and argumentative. Of course, there are exceptions to this Cobra replica buyer profile such as Patrick, who's expertise in every subject area is beyond mere mortals, though he's still argumentative.

tkb289 · #23 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 12:14 AM

Rodney ... do you (or does anyone else for that matter) ... know if CS planning to do a line of 'small', small blocks like a 302 or 289 ??? Don't know if I would go that route, but it seems like something to consider.

Seems like the vast majority of the 'small blocks' are stroked, which if you think about essentially amounts to free horsepower from the increased displacement. But for those that are interested in old school motor displacements, it makes it all the more challenging to find a 'real' 302 ... or 289 for that matter.

- Tim

patrickt · #24 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Of course, there are exceptions to this Cobra replica buyer profile such as Patrick, who's expertise in every subject area is beyond mere mortals...

... with the sole exception being tonneau covers.

RodKnock · #25 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkb289

Rodney ... do you (or does anyone else for that matter) ... know if CS planning to do a line of 'small', small blocks like a 302 or 289 ??? Don't know if I would go that route, but it seems like something to consider.

Seems like the vast majority of the 'small blocks' are stroked, which if you think about essentially amounts to free horsepower from the increased displacement. But for those that are interested in old school motor displacements, it makes it all the more challenging to find a 'real' 302 ... or 289 for that matter.

- Tim

Tim,

It appears that CS would rebuild your 289/302 engine if you brought it to them. Also, I think it would be very easy to find an early 289, 302 or even a Mexican 302 block for your build. I always see them posted on various websites like the NorCal Shelby website or even the SAAC Forum. Also, you could buy a brand new 302W block from Dart, if you had to, but then they're expensive and you don't really need it.

I'm sure a builder like Keith Craft would build you a straight up 289/302 as well. There are local guys who would build you one too.

Gunner · #26 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 10:44 AM

Done in moderation, stroking is such an easy source of free power - as well as completely invisible in even the most meticulously original build - that I can't see any reason not to take advantage of it. The problems with it are largely from the old days - trying to use an alternate factory crank or rods that couldn't withstand high-power use. If you're going to put in new forged parts anyway, you might as well go for a 331 or 347, which has practically no downside in terms of rod angles or durability.

But to each his own. I look forward to finding an FIA build with a 260 some day.

Tony Ripepi · #27 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 10:46 AM

Hi Guys,

The real deal is that SAI is a business and an expansion into another market where their "Name Brand" may have an appeal to a segment of the buyers makes sense. Revenue drives a business and a broader market means more revenue.

It is interesting on the day that Shelby signed the dashboard of my Daytona he asked what engine was in it, when I told him that it was a 351 bored to 408 he said " Those things blow up a lot". I guess the Shelby engine group figured out that the 351 bored to 427 is a great motor for a Cobra.

In the fullness of time the market will determine if there is a value to Shelby endorsed products. If the current consumer wants to make the bet that an investment in the Shelby brand has value now and may have increased value in the future.

Tony R.

REAL 1 · #28 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 09:59 AM

Exactly. What he said.

Gunner · #29 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Exactly. What he said.

Would either of you care to define "fullness of time" in this context? Do you mean a few years? Ten? Fifty?

Tony Ripepi · #30 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 10:17 AM

Hi Gunner,

Fulness of time.....

1) When you decide to sell your Cobra, will having Shelby brand mean anything to the buyer.

2) When Shelby goes to the fate we all have in front of us what will happen to the value of the products he touched, signed , endorsed etc. etc.

3) Every day that you get is the only guarantee and the fulness of time may be just "Today".

4) Others feel free to add your definition

.....

TR

RodKnock · #31 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 10:30 AM

As for #2, the one thing I remember when Enzo Ferrari passed was that for a brief time, older and classic Ferraris went WAY up, but then prices settled back down into normal price appreciation and depreciation patterns depending on the Ferrari model of course. Speculation always happens.

REAL 1 · #32 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 11:59 AM

That unit of time between the time you buy your Shelby product of choice and the time you or your heirs sell it.

Hope this helps.

rodneym · #33 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 12:07 PM

Rodknock,

You should know better than bring common sense in to this old argument.

I like the old man. And his piss and vinegar is what fueled the fun we're now enjoying. But I still don't personally care for a silver paint pen signature on the dash. I have a limited edition Cobra toy with his sig but that's for fun and posterity. I would never consider a signature, paid for or not, no be any kind of 'endorsement'. I mean, c'mon, some sigs are on great cars, others...not so much.

How about a signed bottle of ZMax?

RodKnock · #34 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 12:14 PM

Speaking of Shelby-endorsed products, I received the Team Shelby Catalog in the mail a few days ago. It's approaching the size of a large city's yellow pages! I briefly thumbed through it and then tossed it into the garbage along with the other catalogs. For the few seconds that it was in my hands, it looked like a slick catalog though.

REAL 1 · #35 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 12:15 PM

Limited production cars seem to be valued by collectors. i.e. classic Ferraris, Cobras, Muscle cars of various varieties.

No one knows what tomorrow will bring. I bought the cars I have based on the following factors in order of importance (1) personal enjoyment (2) cars that are likely to hold their value relatively well (each car I have is limited in production number) and have maybe a chance to even appreciate with time.

No car was purchased as an investment although it may work out that way as to some. Not counting on it though. But I do believe a Shelby (and for that matter a Kirkham) has a much better chance of an increase in value in the future than a replica of any make. Thats for certain in my mind.

franklin · #36 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Ripepi

Hi Guys,

The real deal is that SAI is a business and an expansion into another market where their "Name Brand" may have an appeal to a segment of the buyers makes sense. Revenue drives a business and a broader market means more revenue.

It is interesting on the day that Shelby signed the dashboard of my Daytona he asked what engine was in it, when I told him that it was a 351 bored to 408 he said " Those things blow up a lot". I guess the Shelby engine group figured out that the 351 bored to 427 is a great motor for a Cobra.

In the fullness of time the market will determine if there is a value to Shelby endorsed products. If the current consumer wants to make the bet that an investment in the Shelby brand has value now and may have increased value in the future.

Tony R.

Even Mr. Shelby himself knows what will hold value in the future... Hey is that a Kirkham hat he is wearing?

KevinW · #37 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 01:43 PM

.... maybe its because Im English, but

.... WTF? ..... Who cares?

eh???!!!

If it wasnt built in Thames Ditton and shipped and fitted out at SA in the 60s, then its a 427 S/C replica.

But a good lookin' car is a good ;lookin' car. we all tick that box.

......... did i miss anything out?

ah yeah i did. if i had the cash id buy a car from uncle shelb with an engine tag to match all clothed in an ali body.

but im still thinking.... WTF ? WTF? WTF?

Gunner · #38 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 02:33 PM

So you're saying CSX cars will always appreciate?

Gunner · #39 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinW

... WTF? ..... Who cares?

REAL1 cares. A lot. So much that he brings it up in every thread where he can edge the topic in. And chose his user name to suit. And has a huge sig expounding his philosophy. And owns about $300k in "Shelby" rolling stock, none of it built before 2005 or so.

The rest of us? Not so much.

I agree that the last REAL CSX was built a long, long time ago in a country... well, near to you but far away from us. Those cars continue to appreciate at hellacious levels (*sob*). All of the replicas, from Leno's hand-built one to the crummiest junk-era Classic or FF... we'll see. "In the fullness of time," if not in being full of... well, something.

patrickt · #40 (**permalink**) 10-30-2009, 03:23 PM

If my exact same engine builder built the exact same FE that I have now, using the exact same parts, and the exact same tools, and to the exact same specifications, but did so under the auspices of it being a true Shelby engine, then I think it would probably be worth a little bit more both now and when CS passes on. Not a tremendous amount though -- probably not as much as most of lost today in the stock market.