tin-man's SPF 2984 build pictures

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

Sorry John, having never experienced the MT's I cannot compare them.

Hi John, since I have no experience of driving a Cobra with either MT's or Avons and if i understand the reasons why people choose the Avons for better "stickiness" and level of traction performance before breaking loose I am of the opinion I should take a lesser sticky tire and experience some form of "signal" before they break loose, allowing me a better degree of reaction time to get the car under control.

Once I have taken the 3 day Bondurant Performance Driver Training course, that includes autocross, slalom, accident avoidance and on track driving I figure I am going to have a whole lot more experience than I do now and will be able to better judge the merits of Mickey T's. That said, there is no doubt I will transition to Avons when I have more miles under my belt and a better judgement value and after the Mickey T's have worn out.

IMHO I believe this is the best approach for me at this time

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

.

[azfordman]

John, I will most likely take a lashing for saying this, but I agree with you. My car had very cheap (read hard) tires installed when I got it. The thing that limits me from pushing the car too hard is the tires let go before the car itself does. Basically, my car is limited by it's tires. When taking twisty roads at a "slightly " elevated speed the tires will start to squeal and slip long before the car will. Of course, I grew up driving dirt roads, so I am used to a car letting loose in the rear and it is something I am very comfortable with. The kids call it drifting....... As I am learning the cars handling characteristics I am getting to the point of wanting to get nicer tires, but I am glad for the learning curve. I think for me personally it is better to loose traction, get a little out of control, and get scared at a lower speed than to have sticky as glue tires and and loose it at a more dangerous high speed. Just my .02 cents worth. FWIW your car looks stunning!!!!! Mark

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by tin-man

Hi John, since I have no experience of driving a Cobra with either MT's or Avons and if i understand the reasons why people choose the Avons for better "stickiness" and level of traction performance before breaking loose I am of the opinion I should take a lesser sticky tire and experience some form of "signal" before they break loose, allowing me a better degree of reaction time to get the car under control.

Once I have taken the 3 day Bondurant Performance Driver Training course, that includes autocross, slalom, accident avoidance and on track driving I figure I am going to have a whole lot more experience than I do now and will be able to better judge the merits of Mickey T's. That said, there is no doubt I will transition to Avons when I have more miles under my belt and a better judgement value and after the Mickey T's have worn out.

IMHO I believe this is the best approach for me at this time

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

.

Wrong approach in my opinion.

When I bought my car it had Goodyear GTII's on it. Very little traction in a straight line, and in the corners you could be going along fat, dumb and happy one second, and the next you were sideways. They gave you absolutely no warning that you were approaching the limit. To me that is the most dangerous situation you can have with tires.

The Goodyear BB's were wonderful. Not only were the cornering limits higher, but they not only let you know you were approaching the limits, but the breakaway was gradual and very forgiving. In other words you could still control the car as long as you were not stupid with the throttle.

The Avons are less forgiving, but only slightly so. The advantages of radials verse the bias ply tires offset the better performance of the BB's verse the Avons.

Don't think for one minute that cheap slick tires will save your bacon. In my opinion it's the exact opposite.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

Wrong approach in my opinion.

When I bought my car it had Goodyear GTII's on it. Very little traction in a straight line, and in the corners you could be going along fat, dumb and happy one second, and the next you were sideways. They gave you absolutely no warning that you were approaching the limit. To me that is the most dangerous situation you can have with tires.

The Goodyear BB's were wonderful. Not only were the cornering limits higher, but they not only let you know you were approaching the limits, but the breakaway was gradual and very forgiving. In other words you could still control the car as long as you were not stupid with the throttle.

The Avons are less forgiving, but only slightly so. The advantages of radials verse the bias ply tires offset the better performance of the BB's verse the Avons.

Don't think for one minute that cheap slick tires will save your bacon. In my opinion it's the exact opposite.

Hi John, I understand the M/T SR tires are made by AVON and distributed by Cooper to M/T. thus are we not getting the same type of original compound in the tires and the name is just a branding strategy? I don't know enough about the composition of tires but I do know marketing strategies and manufacturing. The conceptualization that Avons are the high end tires seems like this may be the case. Assuming there are different tire moulds that get exchanged when running the different "brands" it would mean the front end basic compound mix would be have to be re-mixed to provide a lesser "stickyness" compound but the original basic composition should remain the same. I can see that being the case however it would mean the entire front end would have to undergo cleaning during the set-up stage and that's a none value added operation. Conversly they could just transition to a new premixed compound without stopping the line, but that would be in violation of batch control principles as outined in ISO standards.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone in the industy who could shed like on this and how the different tire "brands" got made.

My two cents. John, AKA, tin-man

[tin-man]

Mark, thanks, I am glad to hear that somebody else agrees with my beginners logic. so now we will both get thrashed. That said, its each to their own and since I value the experience of the members advice, my gut tells me I should learn how to drive first, get to know the car and then transition to Avons. I just saw a dvd of a Cobra flip and the driver had very sticky tires on his car. I'll send it to you via pm since I do not know how to upload videos. Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man

[Silverback51]

For the life of me I cannot understand the logic of using sub-optimal traction tires and thinking it's safer.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

For the life of me I cannot understand the logic of using sub-optimal traction tires and thinking it's safer.

Is the rumor that the Avons and MT/SR are actually made from the same material true?

[Silverback51]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Is the rumor that the Avons and MT/SR are actually made from the same material true?

I have no idea about that one Patrick.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Is the rumor that the Avons and MT/SR are actually made from the same material true?

Yes, rubber compound, possibly some steel too.

[tin-man]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

For the life of me I cannot understand the logic of using sub-optimal traction tires and thinking it's safer.

I am not a road warrior, I have not driven a performance car in ten years, thus my logic is if the Mickey T's are indeed from the same manufacturer as Avon, but just branded differently I'll get used to driving the car at moderate speeds without spending US1600. Oh and the MT'S I found out are a done deal. So its kinda mute at this point.

Has anyone got experience driving MT's and compared them to Avons????

John, maybe its a price thing too, not everyone is gonna drop that kind of money on tires and then do burnouts, just don't make any sense.

After I get ride acquainted and have developed stronger gonads to get the speed higher than 25MPH and daringly, tried doing some "creative driving" ala autocross, I'll probably go and get some Avons and come back to this forum and say, John Hall AKA,Silverback 51, you were right.

In the meantime I'm going to enjoy my car and hopefully don't kill myself.

Cheers, John, AKA, tin-man