Roush Engine Failure – Pictures

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Marvin

That cannot be correct.
That is you pay that much for an engine and you should check fastners every 1,000 mi, where did that come from?

Agreed. I have never heard of a requirement that you re-torque your valve train. If you have hydraulic lifters, you almost never pull your covers off period.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Agreed. I have never heard of a requirement that you re-torque your valve train.

But it is something that you recommended I check when I did my lash last year, which of course I did....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

But it is something that you recommended I check when I did my lash last year, which of course I did....

You have solid lifters, so you have to remove your covers. And, you had the four bolts right there in front of your nose. And, you had a torque wrench in your hand. Brent, Barry, and Keith can all correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture to say that none of them ships off an engine with a note that says "please re-torque your valve train after 1000 miles."

[csx4910]

From my very painful experience with Roush Iwill say to make sure you have all your documentation in writing of maintenence and service done, any previous communication and problems well documented and be prepared for a long drawn out battle, especially since you are out of warranty. They talk a good game but in my own personal experience, they dont stand behind their product without a fight.
Ron

[coosawjack]

Originally Posted by csx4910

From my very painful experience with Roush Iwill say to make sure you have all your documentation in writing of maintenence and service done, any previous communication and problems well documented and be prepared for a long drawn out battle, especially since you are out of warranty. They talk a good game but in my own personal experience, they dont stand behind their product without a fight.
Ron

Just how much maintenance is required in 2300 miles??

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Brent, Barry, and Keith can all correct me if I'm wrong, but I would venture to say that none of them ships off an engine with a note that says "please re-torque your valve train after 1000 miles."

I'm reminded of a scene from "A few Good Men" where Tom Cruise is cross examining Noah Wylie on the stand regarding how soldiers at Guantanamo Bay are able to find the mess hall without the directions actually being written into the Marine manual. Noah Wylie answers "Follow the chow line, I guess."

Does everything have to be written down or how about some common sense? It's a brand new ALL ALUMINUM $23,000 engine, how much time and cost would it take to make yourself feel better about how your engine is doing?

I had Tom Lucas, my engine builder, check/retorque the heads, rocker arm assembly, oil pan, etc. after about 1,000 miles. As I said, I'm more anal than most.

[N2VENOM]

Great discussion guys.
Update. Roush called back and after several calls back a forth, emailing pictures and talking with the manager, roush's position is the warranty is over, but is willing to sell the repair parts at cost. ($600.00)

I will have the engine back together in a couple of days. Hopefully we won't have any surprises.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I had Tom Lucas, my engine builder, check/retorque the heads, rocker arm assembly, oil pan, etc. after about 1,000 miles. As I said, I'm more anal than most.

Did you drop the oil pan and retorque the rods? What about the flywheel bolts? I submit that a properly installed valve train in our engines should never, ever require a retorque. And it would be awfully nice if one of the recognized engine builders replied here with "yes, the only time a valve train should require retorquing is if it was never torqued properly in the first place." And I bet that's the case.

[csx4910]

I would check to see if you can get the parts cheaper from somewhere else. There really isnt anything proprietary about a Roush engine other than thier EFI to my knowledge(they dont want anyone else being able to access the program to tune it) I didnt think they would honor anything out of warranty. The good old days of actually standing behind your product and doing the right thing for someone is out the door in large companies such as theirs.
Ron

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Did you drop the oil pan and retorque the rods? What about the flywheel bolts?

Yes, but since I was very lazy that day, I used my powers of x-ray vision and mental telepathy to check those.

I'll quote myself. "I'm more anal than most." And this beauty. "Don't check your hydraulic roller cam, no skin off my back. I don't care."

I'm sure none of this applies to 428's anyway.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm sure none of this applies to 428's anyway.

Seriously, I had a prettly lengthy discussion on this subject with my engine builder when he finished my build for me. He was adamant on not retorquing the heads, but did want the intake manifold retorqued after 400 miles. A couple of other things as well.

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Did you drop the oil pan and retorque the rods? What about the flywheel bolts? I submit that a properly installed valve train in our engines should never, ever require a retorque.

I am no PRO engine builder, but have probably built close to a 500 engines in the last 40 years and I would submit that anytime you have aluminum and steel interacting ...re-torquing is not only a good precaution, but makes an extreme amount of sense. If I have aluminum heads on an steel block, I re-check the head bolt torque after an appropriate amount of miles. The Ford crate engine I installed in the Coupe had an instruction sheet that even detailed that. I think many time blown head gaskets, water leaks and other "failures" could be minimized by regular re-torquing. An all steel/iron engine doesn't have the expansion variables that are involved in an aluminum/iron engine. Aluminum expansion varies depending on what quality aluminum is used as well.

[patrickt]

Woodz428 -- I hear you.... But, how many of today's cars have aluminum heads and how many of the owner's manuals require a valve train retorque? Now, of course, no builder is going to go on record saying "even though that bolt is right in front of you, there is absolutely no reason to retorque it so you shouldn't even bother." It would be nice if some of the recognized builders would chime in on their view of the need for hydraulic lifter guys to pull their valve covers and retorque their valve train. Personally, I don't think that need is there unless the valve train was not installed properly to begin with.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I had Tom Lucas, my engine builder, check/retorque the heads, rocker arm assembly, oil pan, etc. after about 1,000 miles. As I said, I'm more anal than most.

Wait, hold on a sec, you mean you've driven your car more than 1,000 miles?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Wait, hold on a sec, you mean you've driven your car more than 1,000 miles?

Oh GOSH yes. That was, like, WAY over 6 months and 200 miles ago. Where have you been?