Continuation of Thread: Drag race - Kirkham 65 side-oiler vs Ferrari 458 Italia

[ACademic]

Wow! I just did a Google search under "p***ing contest" and it referenced this thread!

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by tommygold

Otomix - thanks, but as a person who wasn't involved in any way in the discussions (and also who believes strongly in Dan's car) you're in a really poor position to say things like you know that if I do a certain thing I "forfeit" the bet, "period". Dan and I are completely capable of laying out the terms of the bet. -Tom

Tom - Is that how lawyers muddy the waters when they don't like the direction a third party takes a conversation?

Do you just move to discredit their argument?

Are you worried that you can't manipulate both Dan & Otomix at the same time?

The devil is certainly in the details.
The terms, conditions and parameters of this bet are becoming stifling.
There are more * points & clauses than my insurance policy, and this from a "simple" bet!

Thanks for the lesson in - How to cover your ass and look good doing it!


Tom - Well played indeed!

Dan - Get yourself another lawyer for this one, Tom already has a conflict of interest.

Otomix - I read it as you have, but from 8500 miles away. I don't think the lawyers will credit my humble opinion.

[otomix]

Originally Posted by tommygold

Otomix - thanks, but as a person who wasn't involved in any way in the discussions (and also who believes strongly in Dan's car) you're in a really poor position to say things like you know that if I do a certain thing I "forfeit" the bet, "period". Dan and I are completely capable of laying out the terms of the bet. -Tom

I believe strongly in Dan's car as KC built the car for me. So I am in a strong position of knowledge - the Cobra will run quicker without issue if Dan can drive and the car is prepared properly. Either way, I also like to see the Bet is legit, KC gets some high fives and yah all adhire to original terms per agreement.....these types of bets also seem to change and have issues.......so the Ferrari should race as showroom - stock - as delivered to dealer via manufacture. I agree you and Dan are capable of laying out the terms of this bet and others....and too bad U 2 declined to help offset a few costs for a 1st class HD film production of the event --- a little 3k ???

[YerDugliness]

The "bet" has changed so many times that I'm hoping you'll clear the fog for me and whoever else might not be able to get a good grip on it. How about writing out the full details of the conditions and limitations in one post. It would be nice if you don't modify it further after you post, but since it's y'all's bet, you'd be free to do so.

I've held off "voting" in the poll just so I can get a better grasp of what the latest version of "the bet" is, a bit of clarification here might just clear up the muddy waters.

Thanks!

Cheers from Dugly

[TerrysSPF]

The terms of this bet are absolutlely killing Dan. I don't know what clutch was in the car originally (I'm sure it was decent), but a car with that kind of power needs as heavy duty of a clutch as he can get.

Can't change the clutch..............can't change the tires............can't go to the track to practice anymore.
Can he change his pants after he gets beat?

This is going to come down to the DRIVERS instead of the CARS, which is a shame, but I think that's what the bet was really about. Afterall, we're talking BIG egos here (no offense to Tom and Dan - I'd say MOST of us have pretty big egos here).

As witnessed earlier, all Tom has to do is point his car in a straight line and give it gas, and he's clicking off times that were equal to professional drivers at Road & track for cryin' out loud - and he doesn't even have to shift! Dan on the other hand, well, it takes a skilled, experienced driver to get the best out of a Cobra, and 12 sec 1/4 mile times out of THAT car with THAT engine shows me that Dan needs a lot more work.
IMHO, unless the Ferrari breaks, Tom may as well start spending the money now.
-I just hope both of you stay safe and keep the shiney side up.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by TerrysSPF

The terms of this bet are absolutlely killing Dan. I don't know what clutch was in the car originally (I'm sure it was decent), but a car with that kind of power needs as heavy duty of a clutch as he can get.

I know that Keith like McLeod clutches and pressure plates because that is what he recommended and supplied for mine. But my build is pretty mild compared to the monster that is apparently in Dan's car so he may have stuck something else in there.

[Hotfingrs]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is anyone able to descipher this graph of a 458's acceleration? Many thanks.

Basically what you're looking at is a 60mph to 130mph run. It took 7.740 seconds to hit 130 mph from 60 and also took 1129 ft to do it.

[tommygold]

HF - Thanks for your help on the graph. Does the straight linear nature of the curve tell us anything about the 458's power band? Like I said, I don't know anything about this stuff.

[Hotfingrs]

I wouldn't think that it does. If any car is capable of hitting 130 mph then the line should be straight, the only thing that would change would be the time and feet marks.

You can also look at the longitudinal acceleration and see that when you mash the loud pedal at 60mph you have .692g force and at 130 you still have .277g's which means that you're not about to run out of power anytime soon....

[Don]

......fyi. mentioned in an article, not Ferrari sponsored, bringing the 458 RPM to 3200 for the optimum launch. Coincides with the 80% availability of max torque at that RPM ?

" The generous torque available - 540 Nm at 6000 rpm, with over 80 per cent available from 3250 rpm – ensures rapid pick-up from all revs. The specific torque output of 120 Nm/l is another record."

Tom....what RPM are using for the initial start with launch control. ?

False story/rumor or ? Ferrari refers to the launch control as Power Start , labeled as PS

http://www.ferrari.com/English/GT_Sp...ia-Engine.aspx

[tommygold]

Hi Don. Launch control is ...... 3250 rpm. It's true that Launch Control is renamed Performance Start in the US, likely for liability reasons on the theory it encourages dangerous driving. Hate those damn lawyers. -Tom

[Jamo]

NASA had rights to the name first.

[Jamo]

Hmmmmmmm.......

Seems to me that unless you have a horse in the race...well, you know.

[fastd]

Jamo, i generally think you are correct, but maybe in this case it's appropriate to say that an interested third-party thinks TommyG is stretching the definition of "tune."

[blitzforce]

It has become obviously and abundantly clear that Tom is just trying to gain every possible advantage possible at the cost of fairness and his reputation as an upstanding guy. He totally ****ed me on my tires, he ****ed me by changing the race date w no penalty(my dad can't make it and wasted a flight), I allowed him to **** me on the tree, and he totally ****ed me by telling me like 8 times that he couldn't use launch control and automatic(and based on this I negotiated a terrible tire proposal thinking he would go a lot slower in vegas). All this being said he will not be ****ing me by modifying his car, the cars computer or anything related in any way shape or form from how he bought it. It is undisputed that we agreed and I have the texts to back it up that his car was to be "bone stock like it comes off the showroom". No one with a brain who knows anything about cars would interpret this as its ok to mess with the computer to change shift points, it's clearly cheating. How much of an edge do you need, I mean u already don't even have to drive your car??

[Jamo]

fastd

I think the concern had more to do with how the point was made. An opinion's one thing...

Just want to keep everything nice and breezy.

[fastd]

jamo, got ya. By the way, I agree with your civics lesson the other day.

[Jamo]

hehehe...

[TerrysSPF]

Dan- It sounds to me that you've been ALLOWING yourself to get ****ed. From what I've gathered through reading everything here, you've made some boneheaded negotiations along the way. Your car is lighter and more powerful than his, but you have to get that power to the pavement - yet you allowed him to tell you that you couldn't make a tire change. At that point your only chance was for him to blow the start and then you tell him you won't use a tree.
-I've been scratching my head wondering what you've been thinking all along!

However, I WILL tell you that I think you have a case in one instance. If you did indeed agree not to change tires based on information that Tom gave you regarding his automatic trans not being able to work with his traction control (but it DOES work and he plans on using it that way), then THAT agreement should be null and void based on faulty or misleading information.
Trust me.................a tire change is your only chance dude, and even THAT is not a guaranteed 1 win. I'd fight him on that if I were you.

[Excaliber]

It's a race! Dan can do this, his car is capable, his tires can do it, it's just a matter of it all coming together.